obama and his fundamentally changing the US mantra strikes again

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Why is it that no one ever thinks the founders would be satisfied if they "came back?" I mean, they'd probably at least be pleased the country was still standing.
  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    And if you take a frog out of a pan of 80 degree water and drop him into a pan of 180 degree water...

    Must have been divined from some source other than actually asking those people, then. But hey, Obama is "something like a god", right?

    You use terms line empowered to describe mechanisms of limitation and restriction. You sound line the Loki villain speech in "Avengers" about freeing us from freedom.
  3. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Well, we already do that. The Constitution is the law of the land, still. Their writings are still in print, influential and widely available & read. But there is a danger of being overburdened by the past. The present belongs to us. Ultimately, it is us, and not dead men that must deal with the issues that face us.
  4. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    You suppose they would think it was still standing.
  5. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Of course if everyone agreed that climate change wasn't happening, no one would support anti-climate change legislation. I'll save my hockey stick rebuttal for a climate change thread, but obviously our view is at odds with that of the experts here. That doesn't mean that the science is completely accurate, but I hope you understand why politicians give more credence to scientists than to you or me.

    You are mixing up per molecule effects with total effects here.
  6. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    :huh:
  7. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Diversification of energy sources is the best thing for out nation.

    Unless you think putting all our eggs in one basket is the way to go.
  8. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    It dies, but I don't see how this analogy relates.

    I have no idea why you ascribing me with words like Obama is a "god". Actually, if you re-read my post, you might see that my argument is the opposite. He is just some guy that needs to try to satisfy the diverse desires of Americans. You should really ask me before you make up quotes for me.

    I have heard of vilifying opponents before, but usually it is not so literal. To borrow a quote from libertarian thinker Brink Lindsey: "On the one hand, the Left was condemning capitalism yet gobbling up its fruits; the Right, defending capitalism yet proclaiming its fruits are toxic."

    Cognizant protection of common resources is a fruit that prosperity has brought us. Your view of freedom seems limited to acknowledge only positive liberty and ignore negative liberty. You object to the restriction on dropping your trash in your local river, but don't acknowledge the new restrictions that your actions place on others who wish to enjoy fish there. But just because one fails to acknowledge that their actions can impede the liberty of others doesn't mean that these actions do not.
  9. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    That depends upon a very 'interesting' interpretation of the Clean Air Act.
  10. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    The other thing I fail to understand is this. There are 4 billion Chinese and Indians that apparently don't give a sh*t about CO2 emissions, or seemingly any emissions for that matter. I realize we are a big producer of stuff, but I'm also pretty sure we are more environmentally conscious that the rest of the world which continues to spew crap into the air like so much candy. This is typical feel good liberal bull. Unless we get the rest of the world on board with our way of thinking, IMHO all we are doing is destoying an industry, placing undue strain economincally on our own citizens and all the while not really saving the planet from anything.
  11. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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  12. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    CO2 regulation is about control, and liberal hopes for limitless government funding.
  13. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I am sure these words apply to some, but to suggest that they describe the entire movement is quite inaccurate.
  14. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I mean, all regulations are about "control," that's at the root of what the word means. Not sure I agree with the latter part. A carbon tax ideally provides a incentive to reduce CO2 emissions, not a lucrative new source of revenue.
  15. austingtr
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    Liberals love giving power to unelected officials (EPA). Sickening.
  16. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    Unless of course, the regulation married to the tax is next to near impossible to meet either techinically or financially, then it certainly is a lucrative new source of revenue. And since it is a regulation and nobody other than the president and his sycophants has a say as to what's in it, I'm not so naive as to not believe this is the exact purpose of the regulation.
  17. GatorRade
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    Taxing goods/actions that people want to be limited is basic economic theory. Liquor taxes, cigarette taxes, luxury taxes in sports, etc. Perhaps Obama has a secret plan to use basic economic theory and climate theory to enslave humanity, but this doesn't seem like the most parsimonious explanation. I don't know if you've noticed, but the government hardly seems to need increased revenues to increase spending.
  18. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I have no idea what you are talking about. Obama via the EPA can only enforce regulations or laws on the books, not create new taxes (which only Congress can do). The EPA has a pretty broad mandate, but they cant just start collecting taxes that dont exist.
  19. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    They don't have to create a new tax, but they most assuredly can change the regulation which is associated with the tax can they not? Or is Obama the only president unable to create and/or modify exisitng regulations?

    If I have been doing "A" to avoid the tax per the regulation I avoid paying the tax. But now if the regulation is changed or another regulation is attached and I can now NOT do "B", guess what?
  20. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    They can't "change" any regulations. They can only ask to the regulatory agency to be more precise or strict in carrying out their existing mandate. This usually means shifting resources (human & financial) from one area to another, or clarifying the executive's position on how the law should be interpreted and enforced. So, instead of 10 people dealing with Co2, maybe you have 20 now, and enforcement becomes more uniform and less random.

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