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NRA asks SCOTUS to say 2d Amendment requires minors be allowed to buy guns

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8rjd, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    In a recently filed petition for review (certiorari), the NRA has asked the Supreme Court to take a case to decide whether the Second Amendment prohibits the federal government (which would also almost certainly also apply to the states) from restricting the age that people can purchase guns to 21. In other words, the NRA is asserting that a minor should be able, under the Second Amendment, to buy a gun. The petition narrowly seeks to require that only 18, 19, or 20 year olds be permitted to buy a gun, but it raises an interesting question. Should the Constitution limit the government from setting the age to purchase a gun to adults only or should minors be allowed to buy guns without parental or guardian consent? And, if so, what age? Should a thirteen-year-old be able to plop down their allowance for a gun? A five-year-old? And, if not them, why should the government be restricted from saying that the age should be 21?

    The case is NRA v. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The Court has not accepted it yet, and may not, but it is worth keeping an eye on.

    In the meantime, what do you think?
  2. gatornana
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    gatornana Administrator

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    The NRA has lost it's collective mind.

    I would expect the number of SYG cases will increase significantly from kindergarten playgrounds.
  3. The_Ultimate_Gator
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    The_Ultimate_Gator Active Member

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    On the one hand, the government can put a gun (or a drone) in the hand of an 18-year-old and order him to kill someone he has never met.

    On the other hand, the government will prohibit that same person from going out and buying his own gun for self-defense, hunting or sporting purposes.

    (note that the federal prohibition is on purchases of handguns - an 18-20 year-old may still lawfully possess a handgun under federal law and may still purchase long guns)
  4. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I am kind of confused, though, because an 18 year-old is not a minor.
  5. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    18 is reasonable for gun ownership. Gives you 3 years to grow up before getting drunk (legally) and shooting someone, either on purpose or accidentally.
  6. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    at the time the 2nd amendment was written the militia was any male from 16 to 60.
  7. leogator
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    leogator Well-Known Member

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    Bingo!!! Or of course you could decide, without getting drunk, that your neighbor kid, yes the one you don't like, deserves killing so you go ahead and do it. No witnesses, your word against a dead guy's. I mean who is the jury going to believe?
  8. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    SCOTUS authorizing intrauterine possession would be OK by me.
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  9. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    :grin:

    SYW - Stand Your Womb.
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  10. leogator
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    leogator Well-Known Member

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    BTW, I have no problem with an 18 yo having a gun. If he can vote, drive a car, kill in the name of this country, then he should be able to own a gun. Just let him buy beer legally first.
  11. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Okay. You make a good policy argument in favor of voting for 18 to be the age. But the question is, should the constitution require that he be allowed to do so, or is that something that is properly left to the democratic process, where you and people who agree with you can convince their neighbors to have the law set at that age to purchase a firearm? And, if the constitution requires that the democratic process cannot set the age, then why does the constitution limit it to those who are 18 or older? One poster suggested that the militia preface should mean that no one older than 16 should be subject to restriction via the democratic process. I'm sure instances can be found where children younger than 16 served in state militias. Does that mean the Second Amendment prohibits the democratic process from determining that age?

    I appreciate your response, but just wanted to help refocus the issue.
  12. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Why limit it to just the born? I think we need fetal gun rights too.
  13. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    You need to catch up a little today. Flagging, you are. :ninja:
  14. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    nm
  15. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    You beat me to the joke, sir. Your lawyerly instincts have made your mind sharper than me own humble noggin.
  16. The_Ultimate_Gator
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    Isn't the whole point of the Bill of Rights to prohibit "the democratic process" (or "the tyranny of the majority," if you prefer) from infringing on the rights of the people?
  17. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Thus, the nature of the question. Does or should a minor have that as a constitutional right? Or is the right to arms one that reasonably extends only to adults? The constitution's bill of rights sometimes apply to minors (such as speech, etc.), but not in other circumstances (no jury trial right, only due the process required by the due process clause in the juvenile justice system). In other cases their rights can be curtailed based on the circumstances, such as in the school context.

    So, the questions become, does and should the Second Amendment mandate that a minor of any age have the right to purchase a firearm? And if it does not, does and should the amendment mandate an age that the government cannot use the democratic process to determine it, within reason (obviously, saying someone that is clearly an adult would be unreasonable and clearly the age could not be over 21 as it is not in any jurisdiction) ?
  18. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    as a liberal my answer may shock some

    I believe the minimum age a person can buy a gun in America should be 18(as per petition that is going around to have law changed)

    I personally believe that 2nd Amendment applies to protecting the right of American citizens to bear arms.

    once a person is able to vote, that person is an American citizen in full. Minors, under the age of 18 even if born in America are subject to laws that are restrictive in a number of way(drinking, voting, etc) with a partial exemption to this being those who are 'emancipated minors'

    I also believe drinking age throughout America for areas that permit alcohol purchases to be set at 18 years of age for buyer of alcohol.

    I believe that there should be clearly defined age at which a person is legally and socially considered to be an adult. 18 seems to be a commonly used age for this purpose. And should(IMO) be applicable to voting, military service, buying guns, buying alcohol, etc.

    in addition, why should there be a separation within the same state that permits
    ---18 year olds to use weapons and purchase alcohol on military bases. But right outside the military base state law forbids a person under 21 from buying alcohol or purchasing a gun.

    My chief beef with NRA is that they also are trying to weaken the enforcement of 2nd amendment by impeding efforts by govt to verify that only American citizens have 2nd amendment rights. NRA has attempted to, and continues to attempt to , promote gun sales in America to those who are not American citizens
  19. 108
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    i always thought it was 18

    idiot!
  20. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    I can't find an age limit in my copy of the Constitution. Maybe "shall not be infringed" implies 18 years old.
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