North Carolina governor signs voter ID law

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator85jd, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    why eliminate high school preregistering and same day registration? maybe you have good reasons. what are they?
  2. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    link
  3. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    You almost got there! All those things are meant to increase voting in general. Republicans want to get rid of them because they fear they might make it easier for someone who isn't likely to vote for them to vote. So while they may or may not have been "past ploys meant to increase DEMOCRAT voting," wouldn't that, by definition, make getting rid of them be "a ploy to decrease DEMOCRAT voting?"

    And you know what? Trying to change the outcome of an election by discouraging people from voting rather than by trying to change how they will vote is the very definition of voter suppression. I'm glad we finally got someone to own up to the fact that the NC law is in fact, by definition, voter suppression!

    Thanks for making the point that we were all arguing, bud.
  4. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    3...2...1...but voter ID!
  5. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Yeah, I can see how it is totally unreasonable to require the same level of security we ask to buy lottery tickets in order to prevent an otherwise undetectable crime that compromises the core of our system of government. Much more reasonable to ask for the manifestly unproveable to be proven before we install the level of security equivalent to R rated movies.
  6. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    How about those who want this prove it exists? How about proving it's nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to slice off a portion of the Democratic electorate to flip elections to the GOP?
  7. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    Are you calling river out? Sure sounds like it. His ancedotal evidence is lacking though -- all Ms. Eaton has to do is ask for help and she'd have help.

  8. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    As a kid, I used to be amazed at stories of voter fraud in some of the third world countries, knowing it wouldn't ever happen in the United States. There was too much respect for the democratic process here. Well, guess again. Our Kenyan president said he was going to change politics as usual and he's sure trying to do it.
  9. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Then how do those same people you mentioned magically get to the voting precincts on election day? And how do they get fromthei8 home to the place they need to apply for their food-stamps, and the grocery store?

    You have a lot of holes in your assertions/explanation about this voter ID law and how it supposedly hurts poor people.
  10. ncbullgator
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    ncbullgator Well-Known Member

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    But is your point valid? No.

    Everyone, who can legally vote, can register now. And its very convenient to vote.

    In a liberal's world, we would have 24/7 voting at the 7/11 and liquor store two months before the election, bud; without ID and a liberal proctor would hold the pencil for you.

    And to add to river's argument that high school students be allowed to be registered. Why? In a liberal's warped world, let's sign them up in NINTH grade and teach them little about how wealth is actually created while brainwashing them on racism and how government works for them. High school registration is a veiled and deliberate plan to teach the young how to vote Democrat. Why don't you simply tell the truth river?

    Maybe the Pubs in NC should allow high school registration if they are required to read Ayn Rand.

    In NC, you lost. Get over it.

    :sick:
  11. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Says one of the guys who can't get over the presidential race.
  12. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    YOU, of ALL posters ACTUALLY JUST TYPED THAT?

    WOW.
  13. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    As twice mentioned, the sort of fraud I hypothesized would be essentially impossible to prove; nobody who would be inclined to investigate would have the tools. But that it is a plausible vulnerability alone is reason enough for people with brains between their ears to plug the gap. I mean, people who realize a potential gap in their home security, or information security, they don't usually wait to prove it has been exploited before they close it... because they are not idiots.

    But one doesn't want to be an idiot to oppose closing the breach; can can also benefit from it being left open.
  14. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be impossible to prove. If someone came in to vote and someone had already voted in his place, it'd send off all kinds of alarms. Are you aware of a single case of that happening? I haven't.
    That doesn't mean it's never happened, but given the Republicans' eagerness on this issue, I'm certain that we'd have heard about it if it happened.
  15. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Dealt with that scenario in the hypo that you didn't read. Even in the longshot that they happened to pick the one that actually bucked the trend and showed up, you have these problems -- 1) is it being taken by the frustrated voter as anything more than a clerical error, 2) are there even records of such incidents kept, tracking of any kind, 3) still leaves you with absolutely no remedy; no hope of identifying who did it nor of identifying a ballot to disqualify.

    That is for starters. Given not just the long odds of getting a double vote attempt in a well planned scheme, the reporting issues come into it. Hell, for all we know, there are "reports" like that all the time but they aren't recognized for what they are because of their rarity and/or the ease with which they could be attributed to other causes.

    But it could be all but made impossible, whether it had happened yet or not, by requiring a photo ID at the polling location. River, if a state were to bear the full, albeit modest, cost of providing each registered voter a valid state ID and delivered it by mail, would you still oppose checking such ID at the poll? If so, could you make even the slightest rational defense under those conditions?
  16. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    So let's implement something that may or may not solve an imaginary problem but will most likely tilt elections in favor of the proponents of the solution.

    Sounds good.
  17. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Except that tilt theory has no factual support and the requirement is the antithesis of an inconvenience or intrusion on any individual right. And the problem is substantial enough that only a fool or one intentionally wishing to benefit from it would oppose addressing it. If you lose a window on your car, shab, would you wait until you had proof that rain could get in before you bagged it up? Or proof that someone had stolen something out it before you replaced it?
  18. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, you're saying it's a longshot if someone voted in someone else's name and then the real person also showed up vote?
  19. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Yes. And you are too smart to not understand that unless you just want to troll me.

    Take a theoretical district in which there are 50k registered voters but only 30k turnout every time. It would take little effort to come up with a pool of, say, 10k who are the least likely voters in the district. Pick one of those names and go up to the ballot, and it is already 10,000:1 you guessed someone who is going to break predictable pattern and show up. So it is actually a longshot within a longshot; that the voter shows up to vote, and that they are the mark who will find their name already checked off.
  20. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    86 percent of registered voters voted in 2012. In other words, it seems pretty likely that if you one person voted in another's name, it would have been noticed. And if there was any widespread attempt ....

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