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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Feb 8, 2014.
I don't know that Republicans are really against voting early.
Because one party goes out of their way to try and benefit from these uninformed folks and one party does not.
This whole thread isn't simply about the general topic of, "early voting," you've been following this from the beginning, River.
complete and utter BS. Republicans issue falsehoods every single day with the hopes that at least some of their fan base is ignorant enough to believe it. All evidence indicates they are right.
that's because you guys have tried to change it. "Sure, Republicans may try to keep young people from voting, but it evens out because Democrats have stupid voters ...'
(Hint: So do the Republicans.)
Eh, I think they are, but not because of anything specific to early voting. Republicans tend to perform the best in elections with low turnout (largely because they win old people, the group most likely to put in the effort to vote no matter what). It's thus in their electoral interest to be against anything likely to increase turnout, and early voting certainly qualifies.
I don't think it's complete and utter bs, I think it's simple and easily visible with anyone who's a reasonable human.
Your second paragraph really goes into territory that I still have yet to even touch - I never came close to saying or even implying that there weren't uninformed people voting for both sides. I just think it's blatantly obvious that Democrats exploit them at a higher rate than Republicans and I think it's pretty clear that's why Democrats are so big on voting drives and 'getting people to the polls.' As I said - let's not kid ourselves, the Democrats aren't some charitable bastian of light that just has some genuine desire or interest in getting these poor folks to the polls who just don't have the means.
Just as bad, if not worse, are all of the misguided voters who buy into the lies and propaganda perpetuated by the right-wing echo chamber. You know, the ones who voted for GWB and the Iraq War and who bought into his VP's idea that deficits didn't matter and that it was OK to start a war while implementing a massive tax cut at the same time. And who let the housing bubble get bigger and bigger. If those are the type of "informed" voters that you are shooting for by eliminating early voting, I say God help us.
Can't disagree. However, as I mentioned earlier, there are plenty of people who would vote and don't because they simply can't work it out. I've lived it myself.
On the subject of "informed" (not you Bill, just adding it here instead of making a separate post):
1) Usually that's just code for "didn't vote the way I wanted you to."
2) Campaigns are at least as much about misinforming as anything else. Factcheck.org exists almost exclusively to out politicians. It is a constant stream of lies, distortions, half-truths, and spin. And I doubt that's a modern phenomenon, it's just easier to expose these days. Once campaigns are all about the facts, then I'll start complaining about people being "uninformed".
3) Where did this romantic version of an informed populace come from anyway? What was the state of civics knowledge in 1920 when Harding won? Hoover in 1928? Buchanon in 1856? Carter in 1976? How many people could rattle off the Constitution then? Tell you the platforms? Name the VP? I welcome education on this, because I don't know. I'm just going to say that until data tells me differently, I seriously doubt that the voters were any different at any point.
4) Turnout: so? More people (percentage) voted for Obama than any Bush, Truman, FDR, Reagan, John Quincy Adams, and many others. On the flip side, Hayes, Harrison(s), Garfield, McKinley, Polk, Buchanon....these are some of your highest turnout winners. I see no positive correlation between turnout and result.
5) I see no positive reason to require "informed" voters either. Other than the fact that there is zero Constitutional basis for it, some of the most informed are some of the least trustworthy. They're informed about how to pay to get what they want, how to extort and manipulate, how to cajole, bribe and threaten. I would literally prefer to draw a name out of a hat than to have these "informed" voters determine things.
I base my comment on the uninformed by conversations I have had over the last couple of years in my place of business, plus on the street interviews I have watched and also on articles I have read. Hell Friday while I was getting my pedicure the lady who does my nails and who is a pub was asking me all kinds of questions about obamacare- her Mother was going to have to sign up and she had zero idea about it- I am always her first appointment of the day and we were the only people in the shop so she grabbed her laptop and tried to see if she could log on-she tried for about 40 minutes and could not- she had tons of questions about how obamacare worked so we googled every question and she was totally surprised by what she learned- she sent me a text yesterday afternoon and told me she was still unable to log on
no body is required to vote emmitt- I just think if more people were educated maybe they would be more inclined to vote
Am I the only one having a hard time picturing a big, tough, 6'3", 310 lb'er getting a pedicure?
Sorry billy, couldn't resist.
But I'm neither advocating for mandatory voting nor arguing that people are uninformed. What I am saying is when has this ever been any different, and why would it change in the future?
Your pedicurist has just as much right to vote for anyone she chooses, for any reason. Didn't get O-care info? Too bad. Didn't realize Iraq was one huge contracting deal? Too bad. And on and on. Nonetheless, she's a citizen running her business and getting by. She's good to go.
I think a lot of people would be pretty surprised so see how "informed" they are. Many (maybe here, maybe not) think they're really informed when in fact they are not. Just look at how many 100% flat out wrong threads and statements pop up on Too Hot.
Tell your nail lady to call BCBS (or other co). They are Navigators now. Check out the plans ahead of time (bunch of non guv sites give the info). They'll walk you through it and have her signed up in 30 minutes.
Again, you're trying to rationalize something that Republicans are clearly, physically doing with some unproveable "Yeah, well the Democrats cater to uninformed voters."
The regulars on Too Hot hardly prove your point.
If we have this "only informed voters" test is it only to keep people who haven't informed themselves at all out, or will it also apply to those "low information voters" who have educated themselves with facts that are demonstrably false?
That is, it would seem like if the response to people who answer "Who is Joe Biden?" with "I don't know" is "Okay, you have no business voting, get lost.", then the response to people who answer "Who is Barack Obama?" with "A communist Muslim who wasn't born in America" ought to also be "No dumbass, go home."
no. you're not alone here
this is exactly what i've been trying to say.
When I see you at Walmart, how do I know you're one of the informed Walmart shoppers? Do you wear a sign or something?
The Walmart parking lot is set up like the jail square on a Monopoly board. It's mostly for low knowledge patrons, but there's a little section around the outside edge that says "Informed Customers - Just Visiting."
Back corner. Enter through automotive. Shortest route to car wax and shotgun shells.