NM Supreme Court Rules Refusal to Photograph Gay Wedding Illegally Discriminates

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorBen, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    It's quite obvious how to get around this: just say sorry, I'm not available on that date.

    Once you start saying you're not going to because they are gay, then you're getting yourself into trouble.
  2. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    However, it does beg the question: Why would anyone (gay or straight) want to force someone else (especially in an artistic endeavor like photography) to perform a service for them when that person publicly expresses his/her desire not to?

    For me, my primary focus would be getting the best pictures/presentation of my wedding and I'd want someone who's heart was in it.

    Apparently, for this couple, politics trumps quality work.

    Hooray politics!!!!
  3. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Note to NM photos: Come up with another reason.

    Some ideas.

    1. I'm sick.
    2. My grandmother died (I stay away from this as my grandmother is still alive and I don't want to test karma).
    3. I have to take my dog to the vet that day.
    4. Dentist appointment.
    5. Doctor's appointment.
    6. On vacation that week.

    Feel free to add more.
  4. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    I'm ambivalent on this issue. On the one hand, I don't like the government forcing someone to act against their conscience. On the other, I have a problem with discriminatory business practices. What if instead of photography it was the only restaurant in town refusing service to a gay couple?

    That said, by dissembling a bit instead of preaching about their convictions, the photographer could have easily gotten away with not doing it.
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  5. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's probably not forcing them to work with that person (if for no other reason because almost certainly the event they wanted photographed has passed, they no longer need a hotel room for a night a year ago, whatever the claim at issue was).

    I haven't looked at New Mexico's statutes, but the ability to receive injunctive relief against a discriminatory practice (and the corresponding contempt penalties for doing so) wouldn't be terribly unusual as far as anti-discrimination laws go.

    From looking at the various level opinions in this case, it looks like the award in this instance was a declaration that the business violated the NMHRA and an award of attorneys' fees.
  6. JohnC1908
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    JohnC1908 VIP Member

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    I think it would. Don't force people to provide a service to you.
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  7. geauxgator1
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    geauxgator1 Well-Known Member

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    They might find my costs for the services rendered to be prohibitive. In reality, I don't care if the gay couple wants to get married or not, but my problem be it with the courts or legislature is to force me to do something I don't want to do. I have to go do a job because the state says so?
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  8. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. You don't have to photograph a thing if you don't want to.

    However, once you do decide to offer a service to the public at large, the state can tell you that you may not impose terms on your service that discriminate on the basis of a protected class or characteristic.
  9. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying could have been attracted to the same sex, but chose not to? Does that make you bisexual, but you simply choose to lead a heterosexual lifestyle? I never felt any attraction to the same sex, so I never had to choose one way or the other.
  10. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    In other words, don't make the mistake of being honest about your reasons.

    7. Epstein's mom needs me to help with some chores that day. Here, I have a note.
  11. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    That might work a couple of times, but it would be pretty trivial for someone to catch you out on that lie. You tell a gay couple you can't work on the 20th, they think you're lying so they ask their straight friends to try to book you on the 20th and all of a sudden Epstein's mom no longer needed help with chores on that day. Enjoy your day in court.
  12. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    That's really sad on so many levels. Why not just spread the word in the "community" and amongst friends that he's not gay friendly? Legal or not, it rises to a level of douchieness that I and the people I associate with (some gay) just would not go to. I'd focus my efforts on something more productive, like planning a great wedding that everyone would enjoy and a photog who wow me with his ability to capture that moment. What, no good gay photogs in New Mexico?


    BTW, this from someone who would jump on the business and bust my ass to make it the best I could. As I've said before, Gays, in general, are great customers. Plenty of money, a willingness to spend for quality and intensely loyal.

    As I've also said before on threads, I believe you are a bigot in today's society at your own risk. I see no advantages whatsoever and plenty of negatives, especially if one wants to to be public in their bigotry. It's the political axe-to-grind types that always f--k everything up for the rest of us and many times (see this thread topic) even give some measure of sympathy for the bigot rather than just showing them to be who they are and letting them suffer the consequences of it.
  13. reformedgator
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    reformedgator Premium Member

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    Eons.
  14. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Some people think wrongs should be righted, while others are okay with just ignoring them. Whatever works for you.
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  15. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    When groups are able to get themselves legislated into victim status based on sexual and/or gender preferences you get these kinds of law suits. I'm waiting for the first lawsuit from California in which a boy who wants to be a girl is barred from hanging out in the girls bathroom at school. Mom and dad will lawyer up and sue the school for discriminating against their son's preferred gender orientation. Should be good for some laughs.
    I wonder how many of these multi letter sexual perversion groups will be legislated into victim status before special sexual preference courts will have to be created to handle the case load.
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  16. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Pretty horrifying thing to learn about if true; discrimination is no more a justification to require specific performance of personal services than any other cause. I mean, I assume we wouldn't be talking about the only or the best photographer/caterer/florist. Chalk one up to CLE/D (continuing legal education/disillusionment).
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  17. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    These are just my personal feelings, I am not gay so I really don't know if this is true, but neither does science, one way or the other. You start to form your sexual preferences during your teenage years and it can be influenced by outside factors, IE not born gay.
  18. myamiG8R
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    myamiG8R VIP Member

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    the photographers should have told the couple, "you're too ugly," cuz ugly ain't a protected class...
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  19. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    Once again, fundamental rights lose to special rights.
  20. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Obviously you have no reservations about the state forcing people to act against their conscience. How very totalitarian of you.

    There are two sides to this issue.

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