NLRB Rules that Northwestern Football Players Can Unionize...

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by scamgtr, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. navygator88
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    navygator88 Active Member

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    Two things that are being left out

    1. This ruling could only potentially apply to private universities like Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc

    2. In "right to work" states like Florida (and pretty much every other state outside of the NE and Rust belt) this is a non-starter.
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  2. scamgtr
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    scamgtr VIP Member

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    It's just the opening shot of a long war...the NCAA and conferences are making crazy money. There are Title IX issues lurking, but I think there will be a solution found and common ground discovered. All the parties at the table have too much to lose. There are some schools that might drop athletics; which may not be a bad thing.

    As one of the big boys at the table, UF really has nothing to worry about. We will be able to finance all of our sports even with stipends. I am sure that all TV contracts and other future revenue generators going forward will price this in. There is too much money to be made by the universities for all of college football to shrivel up and die on the vine. Some programs and athletic departments might disappear, but I think that most of that is hyperbole.

    The biggest gripe I have with the current format is that everyone in the NCAA plays by the same set of rules. Why should UF have the same rule book as a Division III school? Why should the SEC which is hyper competitive be bound by the same rules as Harvard? The whole system smacks of being a farce. The Miami case and USC cases show that big time collegiate athletics is not really amateur. It is an antiquated system that maybe worked 50 years ago. It doesn't anymore. Maybe this will be the catalyst that starts real reform from the ground up to create a better, more modern system that reflects the realities that some universities are a little more in love with their athletic programs than other ones. We all enjoy SEC football and basketball, but let's not act like the SEC isn't a big business just like any other. Also let's not act like there are hundreds of teams vying for a championship every year...it is the same major programs year after year. This will just put the big boys in a different realm so that they can compete at their own level.

    If we do end up paying players, its not going to stop me from watching the games because I love football and the Gators; it'll end up being just another selling point for these kids.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  3. MiddleTNgator
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    MiddleTNgator Well-Known Member

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    The majority of NCAA athletic departments do not turn a profit. Football programs can and do (football supports many of the other programs), but the athletic department often operates in the red. Pay stipends to only sports that produce revenue and women across America will riot over Title IX. Meeting the 3 prong compliance is already an issue and this will only enhance that problem.

    With there being no way for athletic departments to pay a stipend, there is potential for the academic side to pay or not pay. To pay, they would likely have to skyrocket tuition further on prospective students. An issue with that is traditional colleges are already having issues in sustaining enrollment as it stands. Students no longer want 100K of debt for a throwaway major. Online universities have hurt traditional universities.

    With that, I see the potential for many universities to wash their hands of football should this trigger a ripple effect throughout the NCAA. The people hurt the most are going to be lower-tier D1 football players and D2 schools. Those kids can kiss scholarships goodbye.
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  4. cpgator
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    cpgator Active Member

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    Interesting point. However, in my limited understanding 'Right to Work' doesn't stop you from joining a union, it just means you can't be compelled to join. The employer's power lies in the ability to fire at-will union employees (as long as they don't appear to be firing them just for union-related issues) and replace them with non-union workers. The problem for colleges is that there is far more demand for talented football players than there is supply. And those who are talented generally know their market worth.

    I suspect this leads to a split in the revenue sports. Big rich schools who can afford to buy talent will do away with student athletes, spin off their teams into sponsored, potentially for-profit enterprises that outside Title IX and compete in some form of 'Champions' league. Second tier schools could outsource their football programs to for-profit companies could build and run the teams in return for a share of the profits. These models are attractive because they get headcount and liability off the university's books. Lower tier schools stay with a modified student-athlete model that is subject to Title IX, limits what players can get but limits how schools can profit from them.

    Or I could be completely wrong.
  5. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Both have to fulfill a contract of sorts. Academic guys must keep a certain GPA, athletes have to stay eligible and play. I don't think you can make a legal distinction between the two. Is it wrong that universities can profit off a student athletes likeness but not the kid, sure; however I think you may see tighter restrictions on what Universities can do rather than see the traditional system go to a pay for play. Title IX advocates are going to have a field day if the football players get a bigger stipend than the softball players
  6. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion on this documentary. It was riveting and has completely changed my opinion. I should say has completely solidified my opinion which was sort of wishy washy before. Loving college sports as much as I do, disrupting the status quo is not something I really had wanted but after watching that, it made the case that enough is enough. Good flick. Is there anything in this world that's not corrupt?
  7. UFLAW81
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    UFLAW81 All Glory to Zarathustra VIP Member

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    CFB must be forced to play by a consistent set of rules in issues of eligibility and compliance.
    The only way we are going to get there is with player representation. If you like corruption then leave things like they are. There is not a single reason to change things if you are paying players using underground sources, covering up their crimes and keeping them eligible with fake courses and cheating.
    Once they have some form of representation, once they are given the full cost of attending college and a stipend, once the NCAA or another body is truly in charge of compliance things will change.
    Do we really want Alabama or Auburn to be the models of success in the SEC?
  8. tommyvee
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    tommyvee Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you. There's a direct correlation between the decrease in labor unions and the increase in inequality of wages. I love the ideal of college athletics, but the times they are a changing. The NCAA will hold on as long as they can, but I'm not sure they can stop this train.
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  9. MaceoP
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    MaceoP Well-Known Member

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    They can't have it both ways.. If they are employees, and they can unionize, they should pay taxes on their scholarship. I don't know of any employee who does not pay tax on their earnings.
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  10. gatorgrad92
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    gatorgrad92 Active Member

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    You say this like its a bad thing. Believe it or not, but this is how a meritocracy is *supposed* to work.
  11. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    Do you know of any employee worth millions that gets thousands?
  12. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    I don't think it's a given that any individual college athlete is worth millions. Maybe TT at his height, maybe Manziel. But if the Gators had gone 2-10 with Tebow, or A&M 3-9 with Manziel, the stakes wouldn't be that high.

    People cheer for the jerseys in college, mostly because the playing careers are so small.
  13. tommyvee
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    tommyvee Well-Known Member

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  14. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, that's why the union us still pissed that Boeing opened a facility a mile from my store here in North charleston, sc, a right to work state. Direct employees here make about half of what the union employees make at boeing's everett, Wa location does. Unions don't carry a ton weight in this state.

    Someone will waive a bunch of money and this whole thing will just fall by the waistline since that is what this whole thing is about. MONEY!!!!
  15. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    As Boeing has learned it is a double edged sword. Your salaries are lower but so is the workforce skill level which has caused numerous production problems in SC. It's one reason Boeing is expanding its Washington production as I write this.

    I could see unionized schools having an advantage with skilled recruits if this comes to pass.
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  16. gatorgrad92
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    gatorgrad92 Active Member

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    Thanks, Tommy...but I think I'll pass on economics lessons from Robert Reich. Its like learning about the French Revolution by only reading the writings of Robespierre.
  17. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    They're actually purchasing more land and building more hangars as we speak in order to start building more parts of the 787 dreamliner here instead of in WA. And then flying it over here (or vise versa) in the dream lifter plane they built. I agree on the quality of employee though because when Boeing bought out global aeronautical here in town they sought to rid themselves of contractors and have all employees go direct but they went around d offering jobs and a 2 week training in course to anybody with a pulse only paying around 12$ hr. A far cry from the 30+$ a union Boeing employee is making. I have had a huge uhaul facility for 10 years now, about a mile from the new Boeing, so I had hundreds of Boeing customers the last 4 or so years, and it seems the contractors will continue to do the "heavy lifting" as well as being paid the best.

    FWIW alot of those jobs they do don't deserve to be paid 30+ an hour. Most of it is assembly line work since it's 90% new construction and not much repair work. I believe the 'skilled" contractors and engineers definitely deserve it but not the guys who sit there and do the same repetitive job over and over like placing a bolt cap or an advisory sticker on the same part every time it comes down the line. The union up there took out the incentive for the "average" employees to learn a trade or skill that would garner the type money a highly skilled aircraft mechanic gets. Instead they pay a monthly due and reap the same rewards as others that have spent their life earning through learning.
  18. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    Oh and the 2 biggest production issues they have had to date is that damn lithium battery melting and catching fire and stress fractures in the all composite material they are building the dreamliner out of. More of an engineering problem though.

    I will say this, though Boeing has been great for the economy in this area, charleston was ranked one of the top growing economies during this tough economic period,but it really depends on which side you are on because they are looking to expand so mu h they are buying out all the surrounding low income neighborhoods (Trailer Park, apartments etc) which is forcing all those who lived there to relocate elsewhere, which is great for my business but not so much for the residents that are forced to move, many of which with out adequate notice. The sad cost of big business expansion.
  19. Cruzer84
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    Cruzer84 Active Member

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    Straw that broke the camel's back for me. After 30 years as a season ticket holder I was wavering on renewing this year. Not only over my disgust with the current state of the football team but also the general direction of CFB - super conferences, television contracts, over expansion of Div 1, etc. etc. etc. After hearing about the NLRB ruling I let the March 28th deadline pass. I've always had a problem with the "scholar athlete" hypocrisy of major college football. In all honesty I'd be perfectly happy if athletes were held to the same academic standards as the rest of the student population - and if we competed against other Universities with the same standards. If I want to watch professional athletes compete I'll watch the NFL. If I want to be a fan of a team that represents my University then I want those athletes to truly represent my University. Let there be a minor league for the super talented athlete with no interest in academics. Let them be paid what they are worth. And if they one day want an education they can afford one. But no longer should we have the ruse of the "student athlete" in major college sports.
  20. gator_n_sc
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    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

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    I dont believe that will affect UF. Especially since the NLRB doesn't have any authority over public universities. And even at the private universities the students at each school would have to vote to join.

    I'm pretty sure Northwestern will serve as a model of pros and cons of doing this. When the students find out what all the IRS considers taxable income, like scholarship, stipend, sponsor ships etc, they will probably have second thoughts or at the very least be split among the students - athletes. And if they rule to consider scholarships income for "employees" than all scholarship students would be considered employees in some capacity in which I guarantee they would vote against joining the union since the avg. Scholarship student doesn't stand to profit like the student athletes do.

    I would not give up on my Gators just because a group of knuckleheaded kids from Northwestern believe they're being the martyr/sacrificial lamb all for the greater good of college athletes.

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