Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack, killing at leas

Wish the world would see Russia in the same light.

 

For the most part they do, but at the same time, the number of civilian deaths in Gaza over a much shorter period of time dwarf the worst numbers out of Ukraine. Israel is clearly not worried about killing Palestinian civilians. Evacuations are useless and the IDF knows this. The people have no where to go.

 

That is not consistent with the facts on the ground. The IDF has clearly designated humanitarian zones where noncombatants can go if they are allowed to move by Hamas (many, of course, are not allowed to move, and I refuse to fault the IDF for that). I do agree that that the noncombatants should have more options than moving from one dangerous part of Gaza to another slightly less dangerous, but that is up to Egypt. In fact, Egypt could probably bring this whole thing to a close today if it chose to resume responsibility for its people.

 

Egypt actually made it clear that it would not accept Palestinian refugees from Gaza. Giving the Egyptian government the benefit of the doubt they may have had a legitimate concern regarding the potential burden of supporting over a million refugees over the long term and possibly permanently keeping in mind that some of Israeli far right politicians most notably Itamar Ben Gavir Netanyahu's National Security Minister have ambitions of an Israeli resettlement of Gaza.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...s-to-open-its-borders-to-palestinian-refugees

 

Yes, I know. That's my point.

 

Let me make sure I got ya straight. Invading power tells hundreds of thousands of residents to GTFO of their homes or else. Residents stand their ground. Massive bombing with high civilian death count ensues. Nothing to see here? Is that right?

 

Not what I said at all. I said precisely what I did say. I accurately pointed out that you presented a distorted narrative that noncombatants (not otherwise detained by Hamas) have nowhere to go, because the IDF has given them nowhere to go. They have humanitarian areas provided to them by the IDF if they are willing and able to go there.

If your point is that surely sucks for an innocent noncombatant living in Gaza, then I agree with all of my heart. Makes me rue the actions of the Hamas government all that more. In terms of safeguarding the welfare of one’s people like a good government should, I would say Hamas’ actions on October 7th were unbelievably cruel and stupid. Reminds me a little of being an innocent Berliner (because surely there were some) in April 1945 when the Soviets were closing in. The people suffer the worst when their governments make catastrophic decisions.

But if there’s anything else Israel can do within reason to protect the people of Gaza from what Hamas has wrought on them, then I’m listening. I’ve already pointed out what Egypt could do but repeatedly refuses.

 

It reminds me of some of the reading I’ve done on the late Crusades. There were circumstances where some of the Crusader kings could have gotten everything they wanted bloodlessly through negotiations and trade: security for pilgrims, access to markets, etc. Everyone would have gotten rich and lived more happily. Nevertheless, the same kings would choose a war, lose, and end up with nothing but the satisfaction that they fought.

 

Sounds like a corrupt regime. We should bomb their people into oblivion due to their corrupt leaders’ malfeasance.

 

That's a course of action, I suppose. Another is that Hamas can turn over its hostages and leadership. The war ends and reconstruction begins at once with maximum happiness for all but those who orchestrated the October 7th attacks. If I was going to protest, then that's what I would protest for.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/11/us-israel-rafah-invasion-palestinians-evacuation/


https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-sa...ereabouts-if-israel-drops-major-rafah-op/amp/

So what intel have we been holding back ? Seems a really odd thing to say in public vs telling IDF in private. Unless of course the admin is doing it for very public very political reasons

 

Honestly, one of my biggest concerns during this has been the lack of a surgical campaign. The IDF are just killing anyone who’s in the path. Such a sloppy strategy does not seem to bode well when you are attempting to apprehend or eliminate a small group of men who are not in uniform, wear masking to protect their ID, hide in tunnels and ambulances. Seems like blowing up everything in sight may not be the best strategy.

 

My nominee for craziest human being on the planet …

 

Literally almost everything you said is completely inaccurate but i know that isn’t going to give you pause. Maybe i missed it but don’t remember you posting “ Hamas just came in unannounced, didn’t drop leaflets, didn’t give advance warning. Hamas didn’t even send in aid truck prior to their attack… so sloppy to come in on gliders and motorcycles and just kil everything in their path. soooo sloppy . “ “

 

Some people don’t like Israel. If what happened to Israel happened to the US you can damn well guarantee that those posters would be saying keep going until all hostages are released at least.

 

The military response should line up with the objective. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable thing to expect. In terms of delivering brute horror to the other side’s civilian population, I’d say Israel was even within the first 48 hours of bombing. It’s now 7 months later. But again, if the goal is to get rid of Hamas, this doesn’t seem like a viable way to accomplish it. The desperate situation among Gazans make it easier for Hamas leaders to train and recruit new fighters. For all we know, there are more Hamas fighters in Gaza today than ever before.

 

If they are trying to end Hamas, why aren't they going after the leaders of Hamas?

 

The issue is complicated by public opinion in the Arab world, that the Palestinian cause is perceived as a cause for all Arabs, and Hamas is seen as the only group standing up for Palestinian, and Arab, rights. At the same time, Israeli hard liners have been pushing conflict. In March last year, Israel announced a large land grab in the West Bank and after Oct 6, Israeli settlers have killed 460 Palestinians in land conflicts. The Abraham Accord that Jared thought was so successful, was merely a quid pro quo of trade deals for elites in Israel and Arab countries, and Palestine was left unrepresented and their plight ignored.

What's compelling in Gaza and the West bank is that Israel appears to be trying to push Palestinians entirely out of the region, under the guise of war, which Hamas has handed to them. I don't think the IDF is so inept that they failed to create safe zones, I think the objective is to force Jordan and Egypt to take all Palestinian refugees and then prevent their return - and if they don't accept the refugees then Palestine will go through catastrophic suffering. For Jordan and Egypt, accepting Palestinian refugees is a red line and Israel knows this.