NCAA Football 14...

Discussion in 'Gator Bytes' started by Swamp_of_Gators, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    No, I understand the amount of manpower (have two family members in the game industry, one who actually worked for Tiburon a few years back), but I think it would be unfair to present it as though it's all redone for each version of the game. I know how coding works, I know how modeling works, I know how game logic works and even if you go next gen to a new processor type so much of that is reusable.

    And people *do* reuse it. As for time, games do go from concept to finalization in two years all the time. I realize it's the shorter end of game dev, but big, complex games are created in two years. It happens.

    Huh? There are big, fundamental problems in the gameplay - the essence of what makes a sports game realistic and immersive - that have been in the game for years. Things that gamers have actively complained about regarding the way the game actually plays. Sliders are not an answer to significant AI and gameplay problems.

    Meanwhile, tons of stuff that used to come stock in the game gets relegated to DLC, there's amazing new grass graphics in the cut scenes or some other majorly trivial gameplay element that becomes a front and center marketing point and - hopefully, but not always - the models get better.

    It's disingenuous to compare this to other games besides sports games. If you look at the leaps and bounds that a game like MLB 13 has made versus, say MLB 11 and then go back to the NCAA series, you'll see. Good series like that make the gameplay realistic and they make it work first and then worry about the beads and baubles.
  2. helix139
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    helix139 Premium Member

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    I agree with this. game development is an enormous investment right now, and most times doesn't pay off.

    FWIW I'm not a fan of the style of play of Halo and I think COD has gotten worse since they decided to dictate through map design that everyone must be a quick twitch run and gunner . But I do agree with you. Part of the problem is that the core of the game engine is still based on fundamental concepts that were carried over from last gen. I think there is too much emphasis on providing visuals that will wow a casual gamer and gameplay that is "good enough" to pass the sniff test to the majority of people who don't really understand football but just want to be able to score a bunch. When the visuals reach a point of diminishing returns, we then start to see some advancement of gameplay.

    I can't really blame EA for this, as they are simply making what sells. If I were designing a game, however, I'd start by re-designing the gameplay engine from the ground up for more realism and additional complexity at higher difficulty levels. The problems in the passing game I posted earlier in the thread are a starting point. I'd re-design playcalling in a far more modular and concept-based manner. No more stored plays. They would be created dynamically based on the offensive play call (done in real football verbiage through a playcall rather than play selection screen. Microphones and voice recognition would add to the experience)

    Defenders would no longer react based on button presses and play selection, but on key-based heuristics with a realistic reaction time that would be dynamic for AI players based on combination of player awareness and how well the offense uses constraints for a given play.

    Rosters would be 85 men. Fatigue would be more of a factor in the default setting and players would have to substitute. Depth would come into play as it does in real games. Positions would be offensive or defensive system specific and attributes would be more realistic, with speed not being the only one that matters.

    I'd add complexity to pass protection (split protections, double reads, etc) , insert correct run blocking logic, and work on OL/DL interactions to turn the front 7 into the mini-game it truly is in real football.

    Passing would be progression-based. Similar to QB vision but more intuitive in execution. Passing accuracy and power would be based on throwing accurately within rhythm of the drop. face buttons would turn the qb's eyes and/or shoulder s and feet towards the next receiver in the progression (user defined) at the end of the drop or the next hitch step. Hit the right trigger to throw with the correct timing and you get a perfectly timed route to hit your receiver in stride. early or late will result in an erratic throw. break the pocket and more traditional mechanics apply with receivers entering scramble drill logic. View would actually be a bit lower like during road to glory mode.

    Oh, and 85 man rosters :)

    Anyway, just a few thoughts, but definitely more than can be done in a year. I wish next gen would go this direction and not just be a graphical upgrade of current gen.
  3. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    This

    and this

    would make the game more realistic, but they would drive away a huge chunk of the player base, and, you know, not irrationally. In the same way that the point of an impression isn't to accurately mimic the person being made fun of but is, instead, to make people laugh, the point of NCAA isn't to completely re-create the experience of calling a real college football game. It's to be fun.

    These suggestions, especially doing away with plays that the gamer can choose with a couple button presses and asking them to instead use voice commands to arrange "modular" and "concept-based" "dynamic" plays, add staggering layers of complexity to the game.

    This isn't to justify any gameplay flaws as acceptable in the service of fun; I probably shouldn't be able to complete 75 percent of my passes every year on Heisman level. There are, assuredly, significant overhauls in gameplay to be made.

    But using realism as a watchword takes you to a point where these games could become like those impossibly dense RPGs with baffling rules systems that are impenetrable to all but the most passionate players.

    But I'm on-board with 85-man rosters.
  4. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta

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    As long as there was a "classic" mode so that people could play with stored playcalling, this would be a cool feature. Problem is, not everyone is going to want to be shouting out play calls all game.
  5. Potzer01
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    Potzer01 Premium Member

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    ^^^^^
    This is the football simulation vs football game argument.

    It comes down to the number of football fans in the world being a pretty low number globally. (300 million max?) With the number of people who have in-depth understanding of football enough to play the game you suggest being even lower.(2 million?) Then the number of those people who play video games being even lower still.(1.2 million?)
  6. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. And what drives EA in this regard is fixing AI/gameplay is significantly harder than adding a new non-gameplay feature. Without competition there isn't much impetus to address it, particularly given a large percentage of their customers essentially buy the game for updated rosters.
  7. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta

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    There has to be a trick to this. Im usually pretty good at most video games.. I can play COD and do pretty well against people in MLG and gamebattles... Most games I've played I can usually go up against really good players online... I played football all my life, but I cant play Madden to save my damn life.

    Anything after Veteran I can't do chit against. It bugs the crap out of me. Is there some sort of trick or special plays to beating teams on Heisman?
  8. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    I found that self-imposed challenges keep the game fresh for me (I usually only buy a new version every few years). I love dynasty mode, and building up teams is a fun, healthy challenge that keeps me coming back.

    So I spend quite a lot of time at UF, and once I've pulled in my 13th straight top-ranked recruiting class and won my fourth straight national championship I'll jump to, say, Kansas. Getting them to a national championship level is a several-year investment, and the little thrill that comes from going into a game knowing you very well might lose and the big recruit you've brought to campus is at stake makes the entire experience more enjoyable.
  9. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    Madden's a little different, in that it seems like there's a huge gulf between the second-highest difficulty level and the highest; every time I try to play on All-Madden I get sacked 10 times a game and lose by three touchdowns.

    On NCAA, however, I've consistently been able to win big on Heisman. A lot of it is just getting the talent level in your program to the point where you're always at an advantage over the other guy.

    Speed, as mentioned, is huge in the NCAA game. My basic offensive strategy is to stockpile a collection of incredibly fast receivers and tight ends and have them run a series of crossing routes and shallow drags. The short passing game tends to nullify the pass protection issues even the best offensive lines have in these games, and the speed of the receivers helps them gain separation.

    On defense...defensive ends, defensive ends, defensive ends. It's always my first priority in recruiting. Find a bunch of fast DEs who can get to the QB and you're golden.
  10. helix139
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    helix139 Premium Member

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    Understood, but notice I also added the caveat of 'at higher difficulty levels.' Currently, the difference between the lower and higher difficulty levels is that the computer has a tendency to 'cheat' and bend the rules of the game in its own favor in a way that even the best opposing human player could not do, in addition to having knowledge of your inputs as soon as you make them. To me, that makes the game more frustrating, not simply more difficult.

    lower difficulties could have your typical pre-drawn up plays. As far as calling plays with verbiage versus just selecting them from a menu, you could still see what you're calling showing up on the screen dynamically as you call it, and once you get the hang out of it, it would actually be faster now that voice recognition is reaching a level where it is extremely accurate and useable. Same could happen with audibles.

    No, I agree with this. I just think with the right approach you could have both. Lower difficulty levels would be more on the game side whereas higher difficulty levels would add more sim elements.
  11. helix139
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    helix139 Premium Member

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    Throw to the tight ends and backs. The defense hasn't been able to cover them for years.
  12. Swamp_of_Gators
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    Swamp_of_Gators Well-Known Member

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    I find good DTs to be far more disruptive (on NCAA) than DEs.
  13. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    This is probably just a reflection of EA's commitment to style over substance, but I'll say this: there are some fantastic interception animations in this game. I had a player make an Ahmad Black INT in my first game, and I've been really impressed at how corners realistically twist and contort their bodies to make picks. Players scoop low balls off deflections in ways they never did in previous games.
  14. UFSECKINGS
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    UFSECKINGS VIP Member

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    Debose just tore his ACL in my online dynasty :(
  15. PIMking
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    PIMking New Member

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    well better than him tearing his hammy like in my dynasty
  16. Swamp_of_Gators
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    Swamp_of_Gators Well-Known Member

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    I had a physics engine tackle (for lack of a better term) that was pretty amazing. The computer was running an off tackle play, and it's RB hurdled a player on the ground, I dove to tackle him right as he did it, and caused him to helicopter. I wish I would have saved it as a highlight when it happened, because it wasn't a viewable highlight when I went back at the end of the game. It was pretty awesome though. I lol after it happened.
  17. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    I'm not in love with the new recruiting system at the moment, which is a shame, as recruiting was always my favorite part of the game. I guess I just have to drastically cut down on the number of prospects I target at the beginning of the season? Because right now I have no commitments and I'm in week 11 of a season where I have one loss and reside firmly in the top 10.
  18. nickdelatorre
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    nickdelatorre Beat Reporter Staff Member GC Staff GC Staff VIP Member

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    I haven't been able to play as much as I usually do but the recruiting feels like a barebones system to me. I liked last years recruiting more.
  19. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    It is. They've completely cut out your ability to tailor your message to a recruit, craft a visit for him, etc. I wonder if too many people just complained about the process taking up too much time in previous games.
  20. Potzer01
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