NBA Draft Lottery...

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by ArtVandelay, May 15, 2018.

  1. ArtVandelay

    ArtVandelay GC Hall of Fame

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    is tonight.

    NBA draft lottery: Predicting the likely and improbable outcomes

    What I got out of this article is that they feel every team should pick these guys in this order if they land in the top three:

    If they land in the top three, they should pick ...

    • No. 1: Deandre Ayton

    • No. 2: Luka Doncic

    • No. 3: Jaren Jackson Jr.
    Not sure why they had to include that with each team. Maybe the writer got paid per word.

    Also, will lil-Penny bring some good luck? I have a lil-Penny figure. He was awesome!
    Magic pick up Lil' Penny for draft-lottery luck
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  2. ThePlayer

    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    I want Luka....on my Gator team. ;)

    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  3. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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  4. cincinnatigator

    cincinnatigator GC Hall of Fame

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    I’d draft Bagley #1.
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  5. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I can't understand how any can see differently. IMHO best NBA prospect to come out since Anthony Davis
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  6. Efawcett7

    Efawcett7 Eric Fawcett GC Columnist VIP Member

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    In today's day and age people are so interested with the physical measurements and athletic testing results from these players and Bagley doesn't have an eye popping wingspan or anything like that. But I really like him and don't think he should fall very far.
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  7. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Which is why most front offices are an absolute joke and why most teams in the lottery tend to stay in the lottery year after year
  8. Ahab

    Ahab GC Hall of Fame

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    I like Bagley and think he'll be a good NBA player but his defense is supposed to be really terrible.
  9. ArtVandelay

    ArtVandelay GC Hall of Fame

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    I don't think it's as clear as you think it is, but I think he is the best player available. I don't really know about this Luka guy. Ayton will be a force in the NBA as well. I think it could boil down to need.
  10. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Luka is the only guy I haven't seen.....I watched Ayton a few times this year and was never as overly impressed as I was with Bagley. Plus the Pac-10 was complete garbage this year

    and to think that Bagley was supposed to be a high school senior this past year. I saw a guy who was like a blend of Duncan and Davis. Now not to say that he is a 10 like these guys were. But if Duncan was a 10 in skill set and fundamentals. Bagley was an 8.5/9. If Davis is a 10 as an athlete. Bagley is a 8.5/9.

    I just don't see how anyone can pass on the kid. Lowest floor of any of the top prospects with as high a ceiling as any of them

    Ayton looks the part and his measureables are incredible.....but so were Yinka Dare's and Michael Olawakandi's

    I'm not saying that Ayton will be a bust. Kid has a nice touch on his shot. Nice athleticism and his footwork is actually pretty decent. My knocks on him are that his moves aren't fluid, can be slow and predictable, he looks rigid at times, and plays too upright.

    He's like a better Alex Len.....
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  11. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Just watched some Luka highlights.....

    Crafty and skilled (especially for an 18 year old) but if he goes in the top 12, then the GM that takes him should be fired.

    His lack of elite athleticism jumps out immediately. In fact, he looks below average athletically. He gets zero separation off the dribble against Euro players, gets zero elevation on his jump shot, doesn't seem to get off the floor at all jumping off one foot on the drive.

    His kind of below the rim craftiness isn't going to work in the NBA especially being that he's slow of foot. You can be below the rim if you're ultra quick......can't not have either

    I think I just watched the annual NBA smokescreen international player. He can shoot though. Comparing this kid to Ben Simmons is nonsense.

    I can't understand taking him above Sexton, Young, heck even the Divenchenzo from Nova. I would easily take Gary Trent Jr. ahead of this kid.


    luka doncic - Bing video
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  12. ThePlayer

    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    Wut?
    The Suns are a real possiblity to take him at #1.
    But there's very little chance he makes it past Sacramento.

    NBA mock draft: New teams for top prospects

    2. Sacramento Kings
    [​IMG]
    Luka Doncic
    Real Madrid
    Age:
    19.1
    PG

    Height: 6-8 | Weight: 228

    Doncic hit a bit of a wall after playing 18 straight months without a break. He still found a way to help
    Real Madrid qualify for the EuroLeague Final Four, and will attempt to re-establish his candidacy as
    the potential No. 1 pick in the draft with a strong showing in Belgrade later this week.

    He's an electric transition player with elite instincts on both ends, especially creating out of the pick-
    and-roll.

    Starting salary: $7,243,440
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  13. Efawcett7

    Efawcett7 Eric Fawcett GC Columnist VIP Member

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    I'm a fan of Doncic. His skill and basketball IQ make up for his lack of athleticism. The other thing to consider when watching him play is that he plays in the second best league in the world after the NBA so is playing against high level athletes. I'm not saying he's out there with NBA athletes (though a solid handful of players for that league could be playing in the NBA easily), he's out there with way better players than any college player has played against. Villanova dominated college basketball, and I bet if Villanova played Doncic's Real Madrid team, Real Madrid would win by 20. So keep that in mind when you see highlights of him and the numbers he's putting up. Also, obviously this is a bit different because of of his general weirdness, but Kristaps Porzingis played for a team that was at the bottom of that same league, and averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds. Playing on a much better team that competes at a much higher level, Doncic averaged 15 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists. And you can see how quickly Porzingis was dominant at the NBA level.
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  14. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm very familiar with the Spanish league. One of my best friends played for Barcelona and Palma. And yes, it is the second best league in the world and has been for a very long time. Although I would doubt that Real Madrid would beat Villanova by 20.....I would say that if they played 10 times that Madrid would beat Nova 6-7 times. So yes they are better (if for nothing more than depth and experience) but Villanova had 4 guys that can play on NBA rosters right now......can't say the same for Madrid.

    That being said, I don't care what other league one plays in, the NBA game is night and day different and that difference has everything to do with athleticism and it is clear that Doncic does not have anything close to NBA level athleticism and IMHO would be eaten alive both offensively and more important defensively.

    Comparing to Porzingis doesn't give the argument any validity either. For a few reasons. First, if Euro stats were so easily transferable, then why don't the top statistical Spanish league players all come in and be NBA all stars. Lots of Spanish league stars have come across over the years (Calderon, Fernandez, Rodriguez etc) and none of those guards could be confused as NBA all-stars (what a 1st overall pick should be guaranteed to be). Pretty much all of them ended up being role players off the bench. And guys like Rudy Fernandez have NBA level athleticism. The best guard I can think of out of Spain was Ricky Rubio and he is a mid-level guy at best. Rubio however is a heck of lot quicker with more overall foot speed than what Doncic shows.

    There have been some success stories with big men from the Spanish league; the Gasols, Luis Scola was a nice player, Mirotic. Ibaka. But again the majority of players from the Spanish league are nothing more than role players.

    So there that, then there's the fact that Kristapis and Doncic are coming from vastly different circumstances. Young bigs typically develop their game slower than guards. Mostly because strength and growing into their body has to develop. Lack of strength can be fixed. Lack of foot speed.....not so much.

    Doncic has obvious skills. I'm not going to deny that but look at the tape. At 6'8 he plays below the rim and couldn't get past anyone off the dribble. Once teams see this, they won't respect his drive and will overplay the outside shot. Zero elevation off the ground.....these are killers in the NBA game

    at best I see a less athletic Marco Belinelli
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  15. madgator

    madgator GC Hall of Fame

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    and I think that pick will rival some of the biggest mistakes ever in NBA draft history. Kind of like Darko over anyone else in the 2003 draft.....epic mistake which is why teams like Phoenix and Sacramento are routinely drafting in the lottery. Have you watched that kid Bender play? He's so bad it's a joke and they took him 4th just two years ago (albeit in a horrific draft class)


    this draft has at least 3-5 potential all stars sitting there (maybe more). this is one of the better draft classes of the past few years.
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  16. Efawcett7

    Efawcett7 Eric Fawcett GC Columnist VIP Member

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    We'll have to disagree about the difference in quality between the college game and the Spanish league. Real Madrid has 8-9 players with NBA experience and are seasoned veterans. Even if the pure talent is drastically different, a 27 year old professional player is going to dominate a 19 year old 5 star recruit in a lot of situations. You mentioned Villanova will have 4 guys that could be on NBA rosters. I agree, but those 4 players wouldn't be any higher on depth charts then if the top 6 or 7 guys from Real Madrid were on NBA rosters. Yes, teams would rather fill their roster spots with young talent because of development down the road, but to win in the moment having more experienced players would win. I know we disagree here but if they played 10 times I'm easily taking Real Madrid to win all 10 games.

    In terms of comparing spanish stats to NBA production, I'm not really sure what you mean. That's the exact same thing as college basketball. Do I think Doncic's 15, 5, and 5 will translate instantly to 15, 5, and 5 in the NBA? No, but thats the same as college. I don't think Kendrick Nunn is going to the NBA and scoring 25 in a game instantly, and I don't think Trae Young is putting up 8.7 assists per game instantly in the NBA. I know you can't compare a veteran leading scorer in the ACB to the a leading scorer in the NBA but pointing out Doncic has way more production as an 19 year old in the ACB then KP did isn't unfair to me.

    What I think is far more unfair is you comparing Doncic to international role players when Doncic's production in Europe is way, way higher then the production of those players. What Doncic is doing in that league is unprecedented for a 19 year old and saying he's more likely a role player because of the league he's coming from isn't fair when he's dominating the league way more then other european prospects have in the past. Calderon was undrafted and Fernandez was a late first round pick. They were never supposed to be stars so suggesting that the fact they didn't achieve that status hurt's the perception of Doncic is unfair to me.

    I can definitely understand your concerns from an athletic standpoint. He could get on an NBA training regimen and improve and still be at best an average NBA athlete. But to me his skill and IQ way make up for the lack of athleticism. I'm not sure I think he should be number one but to me he is undoubtably a top 3 pick. We'll have to have the conversation again in 5 years after he's played some and see where he's at haha.
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  17. cincinnatigator

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    If I'm taking a European guy #1 overall, he needs to either have some stellar highlights or unique measurables. I just don't see it when I look at Doncic. First off, he's refusing to work out for any team prior to the draft. That should be a warning sign to teams that he's not really ready for NBA stardom from day 1. Then I'd worry about his hype being overinflated over there due to his father. What actually separates him from a kid like Donte Divincenzo? Because I don't see anything spectacular in his highlights.

    Bagley dominated in the Drew league (the best offseason league in existence and one that most NBA players play in at one point) last summer. He has the combination of offensive talent and measurables that I haven't seen since Durant. He can handle the ball and shoot the 3 at a high percentage for a guy his size. He's the perfect power forward in today's game. I really haven't seen that much of Ayton but I wasn't overly impressed. Certainly not a Shaq type talent.
  18. tilly

    tilly Superhero Moderator with bulletproof posts! Moderator VIP Member

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  19. madgator

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    I guess what I'm saying is that this draft is actually talented and relatively deep. I really believe that taking a guy that has an obvious and tough to improve deficiency like athleticism over some of the other projected lottery picks will be a mistake.

    No doubt that the skill set and the IQ are there and off the charts though.
  20. Efawcett7

    Efawcett7 Eric Fawcett GC Columnist VIP Member

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    This is definitely an interesting draft with the complete set of opposites--You have guys like Doncic and Trae Young (i'll also almost put Bagley in this category because his lack of wingspan and physical attributes will be the knock on him) that have shown a lot of skill and production but aren't athletic or physically dominant, and then you had super athletes like Ayton, Jaren Jackson, and Mo Bamba who all look like they were built in a science lab. It will be interesting to see how teams evaluate them.

    Out of curiosity, where do you think Doncic will be drafted? I know you stated where you think he should be drafted, but obviously where players should be drafted and where they are drafted are often different haha. Do you think teams will come to similar conclusions to you or do you think they'll be more like me and have him top 3?
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