Naval escalation in the Asian Theater

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by HallGator, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    I wonder if the Chinese think the Japanese will sit idly by and let them reach hegemony in the Asian realm? After all the Japanese are not known for being the most peaceful bunch on the planet and they sure as heck are not afraid to fight when riled up.

    The following article is about the Japanese increasing their sea power and being on the verge, if not already there, of having the first aircraft carriers since WWII. It is something I have been wondering about ever since North Korea started shaking the Japanese cage with their missile testing in the Sea of Japan.

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  2. dangolegators
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    dangolegators Well-Known Member

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    The Japanese need to beef up their defenses. China is only going to get worse.
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  3. oragator1
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    I read what amounted to a propaganda piece from Chin and they did eveything but call Japan warmongers. Of course there was no mention of the defense zone, their repeated provocations against Vietnamese fishing ships, etc.
    But on the other hand, they as much as anyone remember Japan's aggression in WWII, and what's more believe the fact that Japan has never apologized for mms y if their transgressions gives them little reason to trust Japan.
    And from their perspective, this comes on the heels of the US Asia pivot which was done in large part with China in mind.
    And then this just after the rebuke they took in the region for their paltry Philippine response, so China is feeling a bit picked on.
  4. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    China only has itself to blame after declaring the "air defense identification zone" over areas that overlap Japanese and Korean interests (or territory). Naturally, it's neighbors will be suspicious and build up their own defenses.

    Japan is building up its navy...so are the Koreans. The US has moved more assets to the region in order to keep pace with the build up...and the Aussies are following our lead.

    I don't often credit the Obama Administration with much, but he's done a good job assembling the region into a loose alliance against China. Everyone might remember WWII over here and Japanese imperialism, but prior to that, Asian states were forced to pay tribute to China for centuries and I doubt anyone in the area has forgot, given how everyone ran to us with open arms when we suggested a regional coalition.
  5. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    If you want to take it a bit further the last thing we would want to see is the Asians suspend a lot of these age-old differences and realize just how formidable their combined power would be on the world stage.
  6. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Sh!t... a few tariffs by the US and Japan and the Chinese will crawl back under that partial industrialized country's rock from which that Commie regime still deserves to be under... Stealing intellectual property is no way to maintain a semblance of a technological superiority.

    Those clowns are the ultimate grifters of a nation.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
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  7. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect Hall, I tend to think that possibility is pretty remote. Memories are hard to forget...especially in that part of the world. Look no further than Korea and Japan continuing to snipe at each other--when the practical thing to do would be to embrace a regional alliance with the US.

    IMO, the bigger threat to the region is a WWI style miscalculation amid growing nationalism in most Asian countries--but especially China.
  8. MichiGator2002
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    One of the biggest reasons we are seeing a build-up of conflict over the Spratlys* is that the Chinese are betting that, push come to shove, America will not stand by Japan and/or the Philippines interests there if China decides to seize them. The bet being that the US will make all the good posturing like flyover and so on at the political stage, but that when the moment arrives, the US will not intervene in actual armed conflict, whatever we have pledged on the subject.

    *Many consider the current ADIZ as a toe in the water to make the same move over the Spratly and Paracel islands in the South China Sea.
  9. Claygator
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    Claygator Well-Known Member

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    China's recent moves threaten Korean, Japanese, and Philippine interests. If they continue to provoke the Japanese, expect Japan to react accordingly. Japanese are very nationalistic and proud; they won't tuck their tails between their legs.

    I expect that it will be China that backs down, at least for now. They have to worry that the US will become involved given how many of our allies they are threatening.
  10. OklahomaGator
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    It is starting to sound like a Tom Clancy book.
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  11. HallGator
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    I don't doubt at this time things appear that way however we only have to look at history and the coalitions which have been formed and broken to see many things are possible. Granted many of those were due to attacks and they made for unlikely bedfellows (WWII for example) but I think we would be wise to never say never.
  12. HallGator
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    Eerily similar.
  13. CHFG8R
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    Honestly, I have never in my life seen anything so absurd as the saber rattling in the far east. All of the economies of the countries in question are essentially joined at the hip, so any military action against any of the others would be economic catastrophe for all. I get it as a tool of internal power for Chinese leadership, but beyond that I see no point whatsoever. All of these countries need each other economically. The mere concept of actual military action seems insanely self destructive.

    I mean, what would China gain by attacking Japan? Or, for that matter, Taiwan?
  14. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    A couple 100 million caskets? :eek:
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  15. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the world has changed since the WWs. Economics are more of a driving force than national prestige. But I would remind everyone of the opening ceremonies of the Beijing Olympics. That had 1932 and Hitler written all over it. And the military are wanting to try out their toys. It's in their genes.
  16. gatorev12
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    The Spratley islands are further south than the ones China's new ADIZ covers (think they're called the Senuku Islands to the Japanese). But you're right in that they're testing the waters to see how we'll react and what the regional response will be. Historically, the Chinese considered all the SE China Sea their turf...and all trade in the area was to be done under the tribute system to Chinese rulers.

    Of larger concern is that China is certainly making the calculation that the US isn't going to act.
  17. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    It's little different from turn of the century Europe: WWI was economically ruinous for the continent at a time when all those countries were at their peak in terms of wealth and economic influence. Had peace been kept, the world would have looked far different today (I think colonial empires would have lasted longer since more money could have been spent developing those countries).

    And I think the greater fear isn't so much that the leaders aren't aware of the economic disaster it would be...but that the people don't care. Old hatreds and fears die hard...and when those countries are finally experiencing a measure of wealth and influence after centuries of being second rate powers; there could be a "point of no return" where a country basically has to go to war because the people demand it. Particularly in a nationalist country like China.
  18. CHFG8R
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    I was thinking more of the driving force for national prestige.
  19. CHFG8R
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    Interesting. You and I probably agree on a lot re. WWI. IMO, the most senseless waste of the 20th century and the foundation for all of the bullchit we are still dealing with today.
  20. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    Simply put-the Chinese think Barry is a wimp and they can do whatever they want. They are most likely right.
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