National Savings: U.S. vs. Norway

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    http://gma.yahoo.com/why-norwegians-millionaires-americans-paupers-141947333.html

    Norwegians aren't really millionaires. But they do set aside money from their oil income into a savings fund. They do not waste money on gov't handouts, or allow the money to discourage agriculture or manufacturing. They can only spend 4% of the fund per year, maximum. The average Norwegian, when you take the gov't fund and subtract gov't debt and obligations, a net worth of plus $140,000.

    The average American, when you take the gov't fund and subtract debt and obligations, owes $1.1 million.

    Bonus question: which government is doing a better job?
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  2. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    So let's nationalize our domestic oil production, and establish a similar retirement fund for our citizens.
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  3. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree, Norway doesn't waste money on government handouts, they just do the things normal, modern people believe is good for the whole of society such as providing universal health care, subsidized medication coverage, social security, welfare benefits, a nationalized pension fund, etc....
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  4. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Man check out Norway's tax rates sometime.
  5. 108
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    What would our tax rate be if you added the US equivalent of what they receive via taxes?
  6. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Pretty steep, comparatively, but they also save quite a bit I guess from the benefits.
  7. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    Obligatory, We ain't a Western European country. We look out for our own self interests and not the country's. Importing their policies would be an unmitigated disaster. Can you imagine what our politicians and "interested assisters" would do with a nationalized saving plan? CHA CHING!
  8. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    of course people will still repeat the lie that the US is the world's richest country....
  9. G8trGr8t
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    see Mexico. US gubmnt management would manage to bankrupt even the oil industry
  10. HallGator
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    If Norway were a state it would rank in population size ( a little over five million) between Minnesota and Colorado or about 22nd. As a country we are well over 300 million. I really don't see how you can make an apt comparison between the two countries on most things.
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  11. G8trGr8t
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    from last week

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ye-deals-as-government-loosens-control-energy

    Statoil ASA (STL) is the giant of Norway’s economy, accounting for almost 20 percent of Oslo’s benchmark index. The state oil producer also looms large emotionally, as a symbol of Norway’s resource wealth and engineering prowess.

    It may soon get less Norwegian.

    Encouraged by a newly elected conservative government that’s considering reducing the state’s 67 percent stake, Statoil is studying overseas acquisitions, according to people familiar with the matter. It’s examining takeovers that would allow it to diversify away from Norway while diluting the state’s $51 billion shareholding, said the people, asking not to be identified because the deliberations are private.



    Statoil bought one of my favorite oilers in ND (BEXP), got it too cheap too, and they appear to be on the hunt for more as they see the N. Sea reserves being depleted and they realize they need to diversify. They will probably buy OAS or KOG next since they are both contiguous to Statoil current holdings.. Possibly WLL but I am holding all three so as long as they put a real premium this time it is ok with me.
  12. 108
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    Isn't that what SS essentiallyis?
  13. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    No, it is essentially a "pay-as-you-go" system that is marketed - with malice I would argue - as a "saving for your future" system. That is why I said if we were to put trillions more money into an account "for our good" we would do what we always do: we get "creative." We are always looking for angles that benefit the individual and those in charge are the best candidates.
  14. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Of course you can compare countries of two different sizes, even two with steep pop size differences. But it would be essential in such a comparison to discuss how that pop difference factors into it.
  15. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    It might be nice if we could do those things, but we can't. (Try to remember JFK's speech: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Too many Americans do nothing for their country and expect their country to do everything for them.)

    Our gov't is selected by a popularity contest system by poorly educated voters in a multi-cultural society. A multi-cultural society has many benefits, but creating a unified populace that supports their gov't (and doesn't tend to take as much as possible) is not one of them. Americans do not understand that government debt is their debt, possibly because our gov't is so huge and unfathomable (it can print money! what could be better than that?).

    Reducing spending is the only sensible answer.
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  16. HallGator
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    That would have been my next point. The makeup of the country is a factor also.
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  17. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    So in effect, you are saying democracy is messy, and multi-cultural society maybe even a bit messier. I'd agree. Sure there are un or undereducated voters, but heuristic recognition of candidates plays a big role across education, class, and other demos, and speaks to human psychology more than anything else. We are all bounded by how much we can actually know, so even when people might have an alleged great understanding of the issues, they will still most often vote according to ideological leanings and personal characteristics of the politician.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  18. Lawdog88
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    Probably true.

    My ancestors were ancient socialists from Norway, i.e., the Vikings. If you had something they liked, they took it for the greatest and best use . . . of them.
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  19. asuragator
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    Damn Spencerian Vikings engaging in their survival of the fittest viking ways :D
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  20. Gatorrick22
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    Or... lets cap discretionary spending at 4% instead.

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