My Thoughts on the Winstongate Scandal

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by UFLAW81, Nov 14, 2013.

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  1. goneagaingator
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    goneagaingator Well-Known Member

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    This has to be one of the most ignorant, obnoxious, intolerant (of anyone's opinion other than his own) rants I've ever seen.

    And once again, you make no defense at all for the alleged victim. You've failed to address anything I've pointed out that I've used to justify my stance on the case, and somehow have found a way to show your ass and turn it around to me somehow saying a random woman deserved to get raped. It's just blinded rage to support YOUR view. Not that you really talk about anything in the report, her testimony, or the testimony of Casher or Darby, this is all about how you feel. And that's a pretty convenient approach to take when there's nothing concrete to support your position, you're obviously flustered, and you can't understand how there's anyway in the world that somebody doesn't see things the way you do; just name-call, talk down to them, and use absurd sarcasm to cover up anger you've probably never taken the time to deal with.

    I bet your relationships in life are outstanding.
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  2. krewegator
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    krewegator Premium Member

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  3. The_Ultimate_Gator
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    The_Ultimate_Gator Active Member

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    Ummm... wasn't Winston cheating on his girlfriend? And if you believe Casher, he's done it multiple times with multiple people. What does that say about Winston's own credibility? Technically, I guess Winston hasn't made any statements, but if you believe he didn't influence his friends' statements or have a hand in directing the story that his attorney put out, then I have a bridge to sell you.

    I have something to say about the whole "hit in the back of the head" story: it didn't come directly from her. It came from her friend who reported it to the police. It is possible - and I posit that it's likely - that she told her friend and said something to the effect of, "I can't remember parts of the night and my head hurts - I think I got hit in the head," and that's what her friend reported. I don't see anywhere in the documents that the accuser was ever asked to explain this discrepancy (which is another failure on the part of TPD).

    While the victim's memory is, to put it generously, spotty, she did end up identifying Winston - and his identity was confirmed by DNA. The one thing you seem to be (willfully?) ignoring is the physical evidence that matches up with her story: her injuries. That's pretty big in my book, but I think what lends additional weight to the accuser's credibility is that she reported the incident immediately and had no idea who Winston was when she reported it - so her motive for lying is virtually nil.

    I can wrap my head around the idea that a prosecutor may not charge a case where the victim has memory problems, and that's certainly something Meggs should take into account. I think, however, that an everyday Joe Schmoe gets charged 9 times out of 10 under the same facts. I have little doubt that Winston's status as a star quarterback for the hometown football team influenced Meggs' decision.
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  4. goneagaingator
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    goneagaingator Well-Known Member

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    Oak,

    Look at her response when she is talking to investigators about identifying a suspect in a photo lineup. She replies that she didn't think she could. I would assume that's why they never did one. I'm pretty sure she did give her number to Winston, as Casher reportedly heckled JW about being the "first to get her number". At the very least, she appears to have given it to Casher. Those aren't assumptions. Read the report.

    Look, you-and everybody else in this thread-have repeatedly put words in my mouth, assumed that I've insinuated somehow that this girl got what she deserved, and have failed to objectively look at the situation and think for yourselves. You have no idea how I view women, treat women, and you basically don't know a damn thing about me. All you know is that I have a different opinion of what happened here; and I guess I shouldn't really be surprised that other people can't handle that. Obviously you can't. But hey, you can always call me a 'Nole. That'll make it better.

    But obviously my take on what's been presented can't be too far off, as not only was Winston never charged, it doesn't look like anything else will come of what happened. Apart from a half-assed effort by the TPD after she initially filed a claim to seek answers, I wonder why that is.
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  5. UFLAW81
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    UFLAW81 All Glory to Zarathustra VIP Member

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    Noah, you chose to ignore the fundamental legal reality of probable cause that dates back to January.
    Without question it is the prerogative of the SAO to bring or not bring charges. The excllpatory or mitigating factors you have discussed are legitimate in making that decision, to the extent they are accurate and factual.
    Winston was not charged by the SAO because he is an all American quarterback for FSU.
    In almost any similar case charges would have been brought.
    So be it.
    But FSU will not escape scrutiny for its actions and in actions in this matter.
    PSU didn't and PSU wasn't on probation when the ax fell.
    Furthermore, the decision not to prosecute is not binding. Based on its reporting time there is no statute of limitations. Anything can change and in the field of law it always does.
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  6. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    I've been objective (as possible), and have not put words in your mouth, that I can recall. Feel free to point out where I'm wrong on that. And haven't called you a Nole or otherwise insulted you, even though I vehemently disagree with your position.

    I haven't seen this quote where she didn't think she could identify the attacker in a line up. For argument's sake, let's assume she did say that... in the early morning hours after having been raped, gone thru a rape kit, somewhat hungover from alcohol and quite possibly recovering from a date rape drugging. So what?

    How is that an excuse for TPD not to investigate anything at all? They knew Chris Casher was involved. Didn't investigate. They knew the rape suspect was with Casher at Pot Belly's. Didn't investigate. And you know I can go on and on. They didn't investigate a damned thing, and this is something a six year old who's watched a few Law and Order shows could have figured out.

    And we know she DID in fact positively identify Winston a month later. And TPD still refused to investigate.

    You keep using Casher's affidavit as source material that is superior to the victim's statement... why on earth would anyone take his word on this? He wanted to gang bang her by his own admission (outside of the affidavit), he destroyed evidence by his own admission, and he had all the motive in the world to lie in his affidavit.

    Your view on this is very skewed by the mere notion of saying that TPD did a "half assed job". A half assed job would be light years better than what they did. It means they would have talked to half the potential witnesses and suspects in this case and gotten relevant search warrants for related information (calls, texts, video recordings, etc).

    It means that instead of redacting key evidence against Winston, such as the finding from the SANE nurse that this was a sexual assault, they would have highlighted that fact and used the exceedingly high conviction rates associated with SANE findings as one of many good reasons to move forward with the case.

    SMGDH.
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  7. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why you're so emotionally invested in disbelieving the vic., but believing Winston, and his buds.

    Just perplexing.

    (And not very pursuasive or convincing--you haven't moved a single poster to see things your way--that I've been able to tell, anyway).
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  8. goneagaingator
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    goneagaingator Well-Known Member

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    No, I didn't ignore anything. What was the basis for probable cause presented in January? The bruising on the report isn't consistent with what she described to her friend. Nothing noted about being hit in the back of the head. I've already explained my position on the other bruising described. It appeared to be mild, along with no head trauma. If the sex was rough, alcohol was a factor, and Casher was right that he busted in to embarrass the two of them before they turned the lights off, any number of things could've happened to her body. She was tested twice to see if she was indeed drugged; nothing was found. From your legal perspective, what exactly back in January was there to conclude that there was probable cause? I see nothing more than that her friend notified the authorities rather quickly. If you don't answer a single question of mine, I hope you'll at least answer that.

    For Oak to just fly off the handle and assume that everything out of the girl's mouth is consistent with a girl who had been raped, I find that completely asinine. I'm not going to waste my time pointing out the flaws in his post.

    As far as a motive for her to accuse Winston of rape? Any number of things are plausible. If Casher indeed filmed the two having sex, she could have panicked somewhat after having sex with Winston. Alcohol was involved. We absolutely know that. I think she was probably confused. Or maybe she was afraid her boyfriend would somehow find out and the tape would leak out, leading to denial on her end about what happened. Who knows? Those are all possible.
  9. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't responded at all to TPD not doing any investigation.

    Baffling.
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  10. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    I think he's referring to JW being positively id'd.

    That takes it from a alleged rape with unknow suspect, to an alleged rape with an id'd perp.
  11. goneagaingator
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    goneagaingator Well-Known Member

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    I said they did a lazy, half-assed job in how they dealt with her claim. How many different ways do you want to say that? There are many other lazy, half-assed agencies out there who fail to do their job on a daily basis. Why don't you point your finger in the direction of Washington DC. If elected officials fail to do their jobs, and are lazy and half-assed, what do you expect from the TPD? Hard-working individuals who actually go above and beyond?
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  12. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Are you playing 'devil's advocate', or are you actually this determined to perform whatever mental gymnastics re necessary, to conclude that the vic. lied through her teeth, and JW is clean as the wind driven snow?
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  13. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Serious question here, Noah--

    Were you falsely accused of rape when you were in college?
  14. UFLAW81
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    UFLAW81 All Glory to Zarathustra VIP Member

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    "Probable Cause is a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".
  15. goneagaingator
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    goneagaingator Well-Known Member

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    That's a pretty dumb question to ask. No offense. But no, I was never falsely accused of rape.

    I just don't feel that Winston is a rapist.
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  16. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    They didn't do one because the line-up would have to have included Winston. He wouldn't even talk to the police, much less participate in a line-up.
  17. OaktownGator
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    They didn't do a lazy half assed job, because if they had, we'd have at least some evidence related to the suspect, the witnesses, what happened at the bar and the cab.

    They did no job at all wrt investigating the crime. They went out of their way to protect FSU team members.

    If it had been you and I instead of Casher and Winston, and they had enough information to positively identify one of us as they did with Casher, we'd have been in cuffs that day, and they'd have had search warrants out on our phones, our apartment and Pot Belly's. That very day all of that would have happened.
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  18. iwannaperfectseason
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    Then you must not believe the SANE nurse who reported that she examined a woman with external (bruises and redness) and internal (vaginal tears) injuries and concluded that she was the victim of a sexual assault. Is it her job to lie? What is her motive to lie? Is she incompetent? You don't take her word over Casher's who has at least 3 inconsistencies in his account of events and definitely has a motive to lie? Seriously?
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  19. UFLAW81
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    UFLAW81 All Glory to Zarathustra VIP Member

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    The SANE report is enough to charge.
    I would want to talk to the nurse if I were the TPD.
    I am assuming the investigators for the SAO did as much.
  20. denny_crane
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    denny_crane Active Member

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    Not to mention Darby talking to the imaginary security guard at a place that doesn't have a nighttime security guard. If they had one, we might not have had the BB gun fight.
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