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Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by gator34654, Jan 15, 2014.
How is it straw grasping when I quoted a poster who initiated the claim you cite?
How would it have been different in 2013 without the injuries? The offense was bad from the first snap of the season until the last. Even at full strength it was bad. The redzone was even worse.
The defense wasn't as dominate as 2012. Hell, they couldn't get consistant pressure on the qb when totally healthy. When they really needed a stop in 2013, they couldn't get it.
Can't blame special teams on injuries.
Stop with the excuses. 2013 was piss poor coaching from top to bottom. Bad game plans, bad adjustments, and bad philsophy.
Wow. Ok. I never said anyone could predict the future, which it sounds like you are asking for here. Not sure what your point is exactly.
What those people "complained" about was a low margin for error. Of course none of us can predict the future so we didnt cite any of those specific examples you mentioned. But those are examples of "error". They added up and easily exceeded our razor-thin margin that our ill-conceived philosophy so desperately relied upon and the bottom fell out.
Our head coach is implicitly admitting as much by completely overhauling his philosophy. So yes the "martyrs" were 100% right and the actions of our head coach prove as much.
Not sure where you get the notion of prediction, as I didn't intimate that they were predictors (quite the opposite, if anything). You wrote that those concerned with the 2012 margin for error were 100% right, based upon 2013 results. The dynamics of college football, and particularly those you referenced, render those specific concerns questionable at best; more likely invalid.
My point is that the evidence you suggest does not validate the concerns. Nor is it a simple argument. The cause/effect does not add up. The "razor thin margin for error" does not cause poor kicking, NFL attrition and injuries (your indicators from your message).
No. You mentioned them.
No doubt that those examples (particularly injuries) resulted in outcome deficits. But to relate those errors to 2012 concerns is faulty logic.
Now you are talking about something else completely. Will is not changing from a "razor thin margin for error" philosophy because he never possessed it. What actions are you referring to?
Nope, less desperation now that you've made a public commitment plz, only proves his point.
Muschamp hasn't turned out like we might have hoped
His offensive strategy was flawed and really kind of antiquated
He seems to have failed to nurture leaders during his tenure
We have had quite a few recruits that haven't panned out
He's only a good recruiter if his recruits actually pan out-see character assessment
We have had a ton of injuries
Muschamp stubbornly stuck to his antiquated mindset-(see Zook)
We just suffered through the worst season in Gator history
Mediocrity would be a step up from last year
Change is on the way-albeit ushered in with near revolt and baffled and angry fanbase
The Swamp was a shell of it's former self
Foley wants his project to succeed-they may have had a chat
It appears that things are in place for a successful 2014 campaign
We all want him to succeed and support his shift in philosophy
One can only pray to the Gator God...
Time will tell
When was the defense totally healthy? Its much easier to assume the season would've been different without the injuries. Its not excuses, its a pretty intelligent thought; one that you can't debunk. Our offense was horrible in 2012 and we did better against a much harder schedule. Tell me how one can't assume we'd do better without the injuries?
The actions of our head coach proves what exactly? Everybody could see the offense wasn't good. That's what you're trying to hang your hat/ego on? Once again, the issue was the personal attacks/comments from the IDIOTIC people on here directed at Muschamp! The issue was the negative ones were quick to point flaws out but not give credit where it was due.
1. We don't know if Muschamp is going to work yet so your first point holds no water.
2. The offense he was trying to run had worked in the past.
3. Nurture leaders? So we've had no leaders on defense?
4. We've had recruits that have panned out; especially on the defensive side. Yes I know, but on the offensive.....
5. Can't and won't argue with the worst season part.
6. The swamp becoming a shell of itself says more about the fans then anything else.
7. Love how you can call him a project.
8. Not everybody here wants him to succeed and that's evident by the personal attacks or smug comments made on here by a constant few.
Not sure how you can say he stuck with his game-plan because of stubbornness. Maybe the fact that the line couldn't block had something to do with it. Maybe Pease not being as good as advertised played a role in it. I guess nobody knows for sure. Just easier to think the negative route then give any benefit of the doubt.
07's not saying the ultra-conservative, no-margin-for-error philosophy CAUSED the drop off in kicking or injuries. What he's saying is that just about everything played out perfectly in 2012, but many recognized that IF any or some of those aspects of the game went south (of which many did in2013) that we were in for trouble. With the razor thin margin for error, our ridiculous lack of depth or reliance on turnovers and the kicking game gets exposed. Luckily, none of those things happened very often in 2012 and we had a great record. Many of those things happened in 2013 and we had a horrible record. The idea is to have a game plan that allows us to, for instance, keep scoring when we're ahead and that margin for error is not so thin.
I know what 07 is saying. But to come back a year later and claim "see . . . we told you so" and choose certain variables as evidence is a flawed premise. I understand the "no-margin-for-error philosophy did not CAUSE the drop off in kicking or injuries." Likewise, those issues did not cause the philosophy. IOW - they are disparate phenomena.
This is like arguing politics. We had solid and good season in 2012. We had an awful and terrible season in 2013. Blame who you must for the good and bad..... coaching, injuries, recruiting. Its your opinion and your entitled to it, like everyone else.
Very poor pocket presence and indecision on throwing the ball away added to that total. From looking at Roper's credentials, I don't think he'll put up with that. We should see immediate improvement with our QB's decision making.
I want to take it one step further. Yes, things went well in 2012 but bad in 2013. You could call it the law of averages.
But the thing that stuck in my craw, and I posted several times, is what happens when your plan isn't working? What is Plan B? What I saw in 2013 was...there WAS no Plan B. Now we are starting fresh on offense and what I want isn't 50-0 games but just enough diversity to know that if some facet isn't working that we have game practiced other areas.
I get what you're saying, and normally agree, but who's to say they didn't think of a plan b. Hard to do anything when the line can't account for anything.
The only thing I can point to is the play during the first game. No sense of getting it over so that the 3rd stringers could come in.
And to re-post something, it would have behooved Will if he had said something like "we like our OLine but injuries may make it difficult because some of the younger ones are still not up to snuff." Instead we thought it was where he wanted it. Then the injuries made it look like we were being fooled as to where the program was in Year 3.
Fair enough but I'm ok with Will not necessarily throwing players under the bus.
Being honest about where the players are in their development is not throwing them in front of the bus. Blaming an individual for a loss is another story.
I think what tegator80 is speaking about is very relevant. Our inability or unwillingness (Toledo game, specifically) to get enough separation so we can get some of our younger players on offense game experience hurt us later in the season when injuries demanded their playing. I'm going to be looking for this early next season. We should be deep into our bench in the second half against Idaho and Eastern Michigan. If Jeff Driskel is still taking snaps in the fourth quarter, I'll know that nothing has changed.
Agree with the latter part completely.
I guess I'd understand stating that players were still needing developing I just wouldn't necessarily want names being thrown out there.
I wonder if FSU fans still think they should have only given Jimbo 3 years... I wonder how that would have worked out. I also wonder how many people here thought that Jimbo was so close to putting a NatChamp team on the field. I think most of the negative posters regarding WM look at all things football through a narrow tunnel vision.