Muschamp's philosophy

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by Wormwood56, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. whitelakegator
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    whitelakegator New Member

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    Actually Sumlin was a spot on name. The year he went 5-7 is because Keenum and the back up were both out for the season. The guy is just a good to great coach. He was breaking records at lesser schools before A&M and before Manziel but that doesn't fit their narrative. Mahlzahn(sp) had Auburn at the top of the SEC in offense BEFORE Cam at Auburn with some no name QB. Weird how that works.
  2. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Wait I thought injuries were just excuses.

    Carry on.
  3. tilly
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    tilly Well-Known Member

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    See Spurrier/Stoops 1996.
    See Meyer/Strong 2006, 2008

    Head coaches are completely "reliant" on "homerun" coordinators all of the time.

    Heck, look at Mack Brown/Muschamp

    Good HCs hire elite guys. Its what I do in managing a business. I hire guys/gals that are so good that Im worried they may leave. Thats how it works.

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  4. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    :wink:
  5. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    What about Bill Belichick and all the coordinators that have flamed out after leaving him? There are examples that can support either side. It was just my opinion.
  6. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    This game will tell us a whole lot about the future around here. At least IMO
  7. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    No kidding... one coach loses two guys and he's got a legit reason for going 5-7, likely against an anemic schedule.

    Muschamp loses 10 guys and it's just an excuse when he loses games to ranked teams.
  8. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Oaktown, at some point you just have to throw your head back and laugh at the derp until it hurts.
  9. tilly
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    tilly Well-Known Member

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    Um...they flamed out as head coaches. Romeo is still thought of as a great defensive coach. Weis did a very good job as OC in KC.

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  10. tilly
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    tilly Well-Known Member

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    ...ask Tom Brady if CW was an important part of the equation.
    Spoiler alert: Ive heard his answer before.
  11. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, we're dazzled indeed !

    But you aren't saying something about "the" Dazzler, are you ?
  12. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 Well-Known Member

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    Well, you are saying that Meyer only did well when he had Tebow. That is patently absurd. Ditto with Sumlin. Look at his offenses since he was a head coach or OC:

    Year------Team----------Total Offense------Scoring Offense

    2013............Texas A&M..........3d............................4th
    2012............Texas A&M..........3d............................4th - transition year
    2011............Houston..............1st...........................1st
    2010............Houston............11th.........................13th
    2009............Houston..............1st...........................1st
    2008............Houston..............2d..........................10th - transition year
    2007............Oklahoma.........19th............................5th
    2006............Oklahoma.........40th..........................19th - transition year

    Johnny Manziel sure is old. Let's see how Urban Meyer did

    2013............Ohio State..........8th.............................5th
    2012............Ohio State........47th...........................21st - transition year
    2010............Florida..............82d.............................43d
    2009............Florida................6th............................10th
    2008............Florida..............15th..............................4th
    2007............Florida..............14th..............................3d
    2006............Florida..............19th............................23d
    2005............Florida..............61st............................49th - transition year
    2004............Utah...................3d...............................3d
    2003............Utah.................64th............................42d - transition year
    2002............BGSU..................9th..............................3d
    2001............BGSU................55th............................31st - transition year

    Both coaches have TREMENDOUS pedigrees as offensive coaches with different quarterbacks. They weren't Chizik, making his bones on the backs of a great quarterback.

    Next question? :wink:
  13. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    He built up a small program into a perennially ranked team. Similar to Meyer. I think if keenum doesn't get hurt he might be our head coach today.

    And it's more of an excuse when your injury is to a heisman candidate (iirc) versus to average players that are just depleting your depth (and in some cases allowed better backups into the game)
  14. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    Worm --

    The thread's digressed a bit, but I think you're right. it is a philosophy question. But I think you and everyone is looking at the wrong philosophy.

    Muschamp doesn't have a a run-first philosophy. He has a risk-adverse philosophy, ands it's that philosophy that dictates everything else.

    If he wanted to really run the ball -- if he wanted an effective running game, then they'd be creative in the running game. There'd be traps and reverses mixed in with the off-tackle things you see. They'd devise creative and effective ways of running the football -- look at the 49ers last year. Ran all the time, but did it through different sets and different looks so the game was more effective. But doing that means taking risks -- you can get holding calls, or procedures, or backs can be tackled behind the line. If you just line up and drive ahead, fewer mistakes can happen. The TOP isn't to wear down the defense -- you're giving them a chance to rest between every play -- it's to reduce the number of plays on both sides of the ball, and therefore reduce the chances of mistakes happening. I used to think it was just to help the defense, but it's the whole picture -- the fewer plays that get run in a game, the smaller the chance of something messing up.

    That's not a terrible approach when you can line up man-on-man and win the majority of the battles. We're not there -- I don't think we can every expect to be there on a consistent basis -- but it's a safety's mentality. Limit possessions -- limit mistakes -- and you stand a better chance of winning.

    I think it's a matter of trust. And I don't think he trusts his team, so he limits their chances to make mistakes on both sides of the ball. That's the core of his philosophy -- the running attack is just an offshoot of it.
  15. tilly
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    tilly Well-Known Member

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    ....oops...missed by a decade. :embarrassed:

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  16. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 Well-Known Member

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    Really? The deification process continues...

    Player-----Opponent--------Att---Comp---Yards---TD---INT------Final Score

    Leak..............Tennessee.......25........15.........199.....3.......1............21-20
    Tebow...........Tennessee.........0..........0.............0.....0.......0............21-20

    Leak..............LSU..................26.........17.........155.....0.......1............23-10
    Tebow...........LSU....................2...........2...........36.....2.......0............23-10

    Leak..............2006...............365.......232.......2942...23.....13
    Tebow...........2006.................33.........22.........358.....5.......1..+ 438 rushing yards 8 TD

    Chris Leak was the leader of this team. Tim Tebow was a backup RB who occasionally threw. Sure, he contributed (so did Wondy Pierre-Lewis, whose recovery of the muffed punt in the SECCG enabled us to go to Atlanta), but it wasn't Tebow that enabled Florida to go 13-1 and have the 19th ranked offense in the nation.

    Tim was a backup. That 4th down run doesn't come CLOSE in contribution to leak's three TD passes, and his two lil' jump passes doesn't compare to Leak doing the heavy lifting, driving the team downfield. Leak had far more significance in winning both those games than Tebow.

    Tim contributed to Florida's offense were somewhat similarl to William "The Refrigerator" Perry's contribution to the 1985 Bears. He could run in for TDs from inside the five, but no one considered him to be as significant a contributor as Walter payton, and he didn't "win" those games any more than Tebow did with a 4th and 1 run against the Vols.

    When Sports Illustrated put on their cover the Gator quarterback lifting the crystal football, the number that quarterback was was #12, not #15.
  17. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    I'm saying point blank that we would have lost two more games without Tebow that year. Possibly more. I'm not demeaning Leak either.
  18. Jonas
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    Jonas Well-Known Member

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    Completely baseless speculation.
  19. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with just about every word.
  20. tilly
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    tilly Well-Known Member

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    I think the argument against this is in the fact that we may have converted 4th downs with someone else besides Tim....but we dont win those games without Chris.

    Its really a tough argument to prove either way.

    I think you and Worm both have valid points...though we will never know who is right.

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