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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ArtVandelay, Apr 22, 2014.
Perhaps not 100%, but the shooting incident was recorded, and he spoke quite freely about it to the police afterwards. The characterizations of his statements to the police, and of the audio played in court, suggested very little to no indication that he was in fear, or even had reason to fear, after he had shot each of the kids. "In your left eye" about the first victim--before shooting him in the left eye--and calling the second--the girl--"bitch" before the kill shot, but AFTER he already shot her, and she had fallen down. Which btw, was after his gun jammed, and he was able to take out another gun, and finish her off--which in turn came after he moved the boy's body, sat down, and reloaded his gun (before the girl). Where is the basis for fear of imminent danger in any of that?
Even though he enjoys the benefit of the doubt--innocent until proven guilty--he still needed more than just claiming it was in 'self defense'--there had to be some evidence to corroborate that. The evidence appears to have done anything but.
The jury came back guilty on all counts, WITHIN 2 HOURS. In Little Falls, Minnesota.
Less than 2 hours.
In po-dunk, deer hunt'n country, Minnesota.
Seems local law enforcement read the case pretty accurately, off the bat.
Amazing... Next time I take my car to the mechanic, I think I'll just wait for it, lest I be deemed guilty by some for asking the dealership to give me a ride home and find myself having to defend my home against intruders who noticed my car was gone...
He is guilty of many things... Setting a "trap" surely is not one of them.
Well, pre-Castle Doctrine days, lawyers always said that if you're going to shoot someone in self-defense, always make sure to 1) drag the body into the house, and 2) make sure the intruder is dead before the police arrive.
I wouldn't think the shooter would also have to be warned to NOT record the encounter, but whatever.
Don't forget #3, which should actually be #1: "...STFU, and let me do the talking".
"You have the RIGHT to remain silent..."
And, most would advise you to partake in that right... Even if you think you're innocent.
I actually agree with you on this point, Dave. IMO, it's a stretch (and possibly a vulnerability on appeal) to equate moving the vehicle out of sight, to 'setting a trap.' IMO, it wasn't necessary for premeditation, imo.
I may be wrong, but I doubt the car being moved played any part in the decision. The premeditated part likely comes from the fact that he drug the still living bodies to another room (so they wouldn't bleed out on the carpet), then shot them...
Is that true? Does not the fact that you refuse to speak indicate that you are accepting your Miranda rights?
Well, yea. This guy is a defense attorney's worst nightmare. I was speaking (asking?) generally, not specifically about this guys case.
I don't know about the deliberations, but it seems the prosecutor played it up in closing:
Who killed the teenagers, where and when isn't in doubt, he said. He focused instead on premeditation when talking to the jury. He pointed out that Smith had moved his pickup truck away from his house that day to make it look like nobody was home.
That was baiting the teens like hunting, Orput said. He then discussed the chair where Smith sat in his basement, waiting for the burglars to come to his house again.
"There's your deer stand," he said of the chair.
Of course, the attorneys are not under oath.
Well, at least that scumbag has one defender:
Except, he actually did set a trap.
^^^well, life is a bit stiff under the circumstances, imho.
Somehow Bruce Springsteen's "Johnny 99" comes to mind:
Well Son do you have any statement you'd like to make, before the bailiff comes to forever take you away....
Now Judge, Judge, I had debts no honest man could pay....the bank was holding my mortgage they were going to take my house away...now I ain't saying that makes me an innocent man...but it was more than all this judge, that put that gun in my hand...
...now your Honor I do believe that I'd be better off dead....so if you can take man's life for the thoughts that's in his head...well then sit back in that chair and think over judge one more time....and let them shave off my hair and strap me to that kill'n line....
Disclaimer: Media blowhards do not represent the opinions of all conservative thinkers.
I quit watching him and the others years ago.
Well, it had to end this way didn't it? Break into a house, somebody might blow your face off. Blow someone's face off, and you might get Big Housed.
I have no sympathy for this dude. Clearly he set them up and then executed them. If anything this guy should be a pariah to those of us who have guns and have managed not to kill people with them. Like my stepdad used to tell me as a kid, when I'd be a little too forthcoming with mom on where we'd been and what we'd been up to (like shooting guns, for example): "Son, you're not helping."
What's amazing is that you think the two situations are analogous. He didn't take his car to a mechanic (that would have actually been a better plan) he moved it somewhere else in the neighborhood. Why would he do that? Needed the exercise? Unless he was in the habit of parking his car randomly in the neighborhood, and not in his own driveway, I believe the absence of a vehicle at the home was intentional.
Given his other preparations--guns set-up in the basement, audio-taping, etc., why is it hard to believe that moving his car wasn't part of a plan?
Here's the audio he recorded.
I am not a bleeding heart liberal
After listening to it...anyone still feel like defending him in any way?
Hearing the girls voice. So clearly still alive. So clearly not a threat any more. Sickening.
This guy earned his pit to rot in.