Minnesota Man Accused of Murdering Teens Who Entered His Home...(update)Man to spend life in prison

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ArtVandelay, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. ArtVandelay
    Offline

    ArtVandelay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    South Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +415
    Question for the gun enthusiasts...Do you support the murders?

    I understand this guys right to protect his home and even to shoot at an intruder. Sounds like this guy was over the top...

    http://gma.yahoo.com/minnesota-man-...ered-home-131438361--abc-news-topstories.html

    Prosecutors say Smith was sitting in his basement when he heard a window breaking upstairs. When Brady started walking down the basement stairs, Smith shot him twice.

    Then, according to court documents, Smith shot Brady a third time in the face, allegedly telling investigators, “I want him dead.”

    Minutes later, Kifer walked down the same steps, reportedly calling Brady’s name. Smith shot her multiple times, too – telling investigators the last time he fired was “a good clean finishing shot.”
  2. ufdocco
    Online

    ufdocco Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Greeley, CO
    Ratings Received:
    +523
    He should have made sure that the first shots were sufficient and stopped at that point. Murder charge is excessive though.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. HallGator
    Online

    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    45,164
    Likes Received:
    1,235
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Outer Limits
    Ratings Received:
    +4,705
    I had the same teenager break into my house three times before he was caught. I totally believe in the right to protect yourself, your family, and your property. I do not believe in shooting someone just because I happen to have the right to do so. I would have shot the boy if I thought my life was in danger but I sure would not have wanted to do so and it would have been a last resort.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  4. rivergator
    Online

    rivergator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    32,649
    Likes Received:
    455
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,382
    I don't know Minnesota law, but I suspect he'll be acquitted. He does seem like a complete and utter scumbag, though.
  5. tim85
    Offline

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,174
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,173
    This is kind of how I feel. Is what the guy did excessive and even nasty? Yeah, probably, but when you go into someone else's home in this day & age that it the risk you take. I mean, how many stories do we hear about this? Dozens per year it seems like, maybe more that we don't even hear about - there is not a human above the age of 13 or 14 that doesn't know there are some people who will kill you for breaking into their home. Sad for those families who lost children, but that's the world we live in - you make choices, and sometimes those consequences for those choices are unfair and terrible, but it's just reality.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Minister_of_Information
    Offline

    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    14,500
    Likes Received:
    772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In my prime
    Ratings Received:
    +1,784
    In Florida, if you enter someone's home, they have a great deal of discretion when it comes to meeting force. Choose your visits wisely, and especially your confrontations.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Spurffelbow833
    Offline

    Spurffelbow833 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    10,027
    Likes Received:
    607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,391
    Until I saw they were cousins, I was wondering if they thought the house was empty and they were looking for a place to make out.
  8. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,011
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,585
    This day and age? No offense, but it was probably a lot more dangerous to break into someone's house 100+ years ago.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,011
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,585
    I was about to correct you. . . then I realized this is Minnesotta, not Kentucky.
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. MichiGator2002
    Online

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    16,988
    Likes Received:
    860
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +3,789
    Based on the very thin and nonspecific facts presented, and not even bothering to get into whatever homicide statute there is in Minnesota... don't see murder here. Not unless there is some evidence that he had time to make a villain speech or something and clearly recognize that any threat had passed before he fired the kill shot/s. But the first shots he fired into both of them.

    The anti-gun, anti-self-defense bias in the writing is laughable... both decedents "entered" his home? No, they broke a window and went in -- so already they are committing at least trespass and possibly burglary (if they intended to commit a felony therein). If they have a castle law up there, then his decision to use his weapon in his home is presumed reasonable and has to be proven otherwise. So shooting at either of those two is totally legit. If there is a homicide charge for the homeowner, it's if the state can make a very esoteric distinction between the choice to fire on the invaders, and the choice to finish them off once they were down. That's going to be a pretty fact intensive thing, though, and requires a jury to make a lot of ticky-tack sounding distinctions -- much like the 1st degree/2nd degree distinction in the Dunn case.

    If Minnesota's manslaughter statute covers the scenario, that's the best a prosecutor could hope for -- again, unless there's some facts that he really had time to think it all over after he disabled either of them with his first shots. If he just reacted, and made sure they were down to stay down... can't see it.

    People need to get away from this asinine idea that lethal self-defense is murder or vigilantism -- if you prey on people, or conduct yourself lawfully but in a way that a reasonable person might be afraid you are preying on them, it can get you killed, no different than playing with a downed powerline can. It's a natural and foreseeable consequence. If either of these guys thought they had a legally defensible privilege to enter that guys home, the smart thing would be to have acted like it -- "I'm sorry I broke your window, I'm coming in! my friend is bleeding I need help!", etc. You'd scream "hey don't kill me I know I'm not supposed to be here, but ___" with every word and action.
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. rivergator
    Online

    rivergator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    32,649
    Likes Received:
    455
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,382
    I don't think anyone is defending the teens who broke into his house. But what kind of man looks at her and thinks he needs to kill her "with a good finishing shot." After she's been shot multiple times in the chest and is gasping and dying, he shoots her again under the chin?
    That is one screwed up guy. If he walks and I live in that town, I can see bumping into him in the street. Pretty hard.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/256189861.html

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  12. Lawdog88
    Offline

    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,945
    Likes Received:
    654
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373

    And your trespasses and burglaries.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. dynogator
    Offline

    dynogator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,833
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +301
    Some remorse for the necessity of killing 2 teenagers would have been nice. I find his matter-of-fact approach to the killing of people the same as that of killing deer disturbing.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  14. tim85
    Offline

    tim85 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,174
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,173
    Yeah, good point
  15. DaveFla
    Offline

    DaveFla VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,065
    Yup. The homeowner was well within his rights.

    Does Minnesota have a similar law to Florida's Castle Doctrine?
  16. DaveFla
    Offline

    DaveFla VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,065
    Why? Deer committed no crimes. These two did...
  17. ufdocco
    Online

    ufdocco Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Greeley, CO
    Ratings Received:
    +523
    Deer are notorious trespassers and jaywalkers.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  18. DaveFla
    Offline

    DaveFla VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    18,492
    Likes Received:
    153
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,065
    Good point...
  19. Emmitto
    Offline

    Emmitto VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    6,153
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,070
    When you break into someone's house, you have signed up for this possibility, IMO. I'm never going to execute someone if I can avoid it.

    However, I don't think you should have the legal right to kill anyone you find on your property, simply because they are present. If it's true that he intentionally laid in wait, then I'm bailing. Just like the perps signed up for potential death, the shooter signed up for potential murder charges.

    Teens with no weapons, multiple break-ins, lying in wait with power bars and entertainment to pass the time. I feel like there's a lot more going on than we know so far.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. GatorBen
    Offline

    GatorBen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    7,191
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,482
    Those of you taking the "this is a-okay" position might want to read through the stories.

    I'm a pretty big castle doctrine fan and this story is sickening. The guy is, at best, insane and certainly deserves to be convicted of something.

    This would appear to be another of those "maybe people who are a big fan of second amendment rights shouldn't be so quick to embrace every loon to ever use a gun and claim self-defense, because some of them clearly are crimes and you're making all of us gun-owners look bad when you do" stories.

    Because I'm pretty sure a guy who shoots a teenage boy twice, then walks up to him, says "you're dead" and shoots him again, drags the body to a corner because he doesn't want his carpet to get stained, hears a teenage girl coming down the stairs calling for the guy he just shot, shoots her, then as she screams says "oh, I'm sorry, you're dying bitch" and shoots her in the head with what he describes as "a good clean finishing shot" before mumbling "bitch" again is not exactly the kind of "level headed rational gun owner" you really want to make out to be the public face of the castle doctrine.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1

Share This Page