Minimum Wage

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by bakaduin, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. bakaduin
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    bakaduin VIP Member

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    http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ers-would-survive-on-the-minimum-wage/277845/


    I thought this was a pretty interesting read. I am all for the market setting the price for workers but IMO right now that isn't working. When current minimum wage workers all qualify for freebies form the government there is a problem. I'd rather have a minimum wage that is livable then have my tax dollars going to keeping this country welfare dependent.

    McDonald's put together that budget with Visa in good faith but to actually look at it is ridiculous. Their job doesn't even cover the minimum monthly budget and it is a paltry one. I am all for people working hard and if having two jobs is what it takes then go for it! That being said working nearly two full time jobs is a little silly. Every minimum wage employee shouldn't be expected to work two full time jobs to make ends meet.
  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    This is the sort of thing that sounds great at only a surface level of analysis. You try to raise the minimum wage the way people mean, by like 50% or more so that it's the rhetorical "liveable", you're going to flat out close tens and thousands of businesses. Bag and baggage, no question or doubt whatsoever. Franchise owners and independent businesses can't absorb that kind of overhead hit and still have a reason to operate, nor can they likely cut their labor enough to keep their overhead neutral to function enough to keep their customers.
  3. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    from a business owners point of view- when min wage goes up I have to raise my prices to mantain my profit margins, so it is a zero sum gain
  4. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    We have a distorted view on livable wages.


    People do not have a right to luxury, entertainment, and partying.

    If the choices you made cause you to be an adult minimum wage employee then you need to live like one. You need to live in a cheap apartment with roommates. You need to eat lots of ramen and spaghetti. You shouldn't have cable. You should have some cheap metro pcs phone. You don't get to go to the bar/club four times a week.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Are you daring to suggest that lifestyle choices are a major contributor to people's economic status and mobility? That is far too honest and accurate to say openly.
  6. Distant Gator
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    Distant Gator Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there are adults on minimum wage, but I'm also sure many of those on minimum wage are teens in their first job getting experience. A higher minimum wage hurts those teens who work at McD's or other places to learn how to work.

    The last time the minimum wage was raised black teenage unemployment went to the highest level in recorded history. They probably need the jobs more than any other segment of our society- and the gov't froze them out with their artificial market conditions.

    Raising the min wage is a bad idea. It sounds good but it assumes the labor market is static- it's not. It will adjust and many times it hurts those it purports to help.
  7. secgator
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    secgator Well-Known Member

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    Simply put...minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. It is entry level pay designed for first time employees---supplemental job employees---etc.

    Period.

    If someone wants/needs more income---they need to get a 2nd job, or attain an education level which makes them marketable for higher income job.

    Period.
  8. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The union types want to believe that we are playing by the old rules, which is a captive society (American made cars, no major Asian car players) so that the increased costs are just passed on with impunity. In our global economy that can't happen. What we need to get wages in line with costs is to...reduce the cost of food, clothing, rent, etc. How? A lot of time and a LOT of fits along the way. Hostess is just one step in the correction and many more are needed. But it won't be uncomplicated and it will likely come with civil unrest (see Greece).
  9. QGator2414
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    This right here is the issue. As noted above if you try and force a minimum wage to provide people what they think they are owed we will end up with millions more on government assistance as there will be lots of businesses closing. Also noted above the businesses that do survive will have to increase the price of their product or service.
  10. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Uh, how about the freebies go away?
    Percentage of people on minimum wage is very small when you take out teenagers and retirees.
  11. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    This is ridiculous. Obivously, "livable wages" are subjective, but when you can work a full time job and qualify for government benefits like food stamps, etc. - it doesnt mean that the welfare state is too generous. It means that low wages and cheap labor are subsidized through taxes.
  12. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Link?
  13. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    They shouldn't qualify for food stamps. We are trying to make people into middle class that should be in serious poverty.
  14. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Ah, so your argument is that is that they have it too good, and should be living in Dickensian-type poverty. Cool argument.
  15. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20130325.htm
    From article:

    Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over.

    Oh and a whopping 4.7% of ALL workers make minimum wage.
  16. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    Outside of extenuating circumstances one should live commensurate to their productive value. Nobody forced them to acquire so little skills to the point that their best job is a Walmart stocker. So yes, a Walmart stocker should live like a Walmart stocker.

    That is far more consistent than having Walmart stockers live like they've earned a college degree.
  17. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Wait, so they shouldnt have a 200$ cell phone? 1000$ plasma TV. Cable with 300 channels? A 450$ car payment?

    Matt, you are just cold brother!
    /end sarcasm
  18. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I think the point is more that if people recognized that their actual income was something best suited to "Dickensian-type poverty", which I guess is what we're calling not having late model cars, cable, eating out on a regular basis, etc now, that they would be better positioned to move out of those circumstances.

    Or, hell, maybe his argument doesn't need interpretation -- "liveable" doesn't mean what the people who throw it about like to think it means. One's life is not only "liveable" if they have an iphone, a car newer than 5 years old, one or more televisions, cable/internet packages, etc. Yet look at what the median household in "poverty" actually has.

    And now it's time for a Boortz rant. Not on the "living wage" thing specifically, but a good read all the same --

    http://townhall.com/columnists/nealboortz/2012/09/05/the_risk_of_being_poor
  19. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    My wife work's at a day care. Our family couldn't be supported on only my wife's salary. I suppose some people would say her employer isn't providing her a "living wage." We view it as her making enough to supplement my income. Not everyone who works at a low paying job is single with children.
  20. ufhomerj31
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    People don't like minimum wage, get a better job. Might take hard work and effort, but it can be done.
    Minimum wage + benefits are not a permanent solution.

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