Million Muslim march to D.C. scheduled for 9/11

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PSGator66, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Because you've got a major First Amendment problem if you deny the permit because of intended content? The idea of approvals, believe it or not, is not to make sure we like what they are going to say.
  2. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you look up islamophobia, it's usage isn't necessarily what the roots of the word would suggest (something along the lines of "irrational hatred of Muslims" or "anti-Muslim racism" are the typical definitions). It exists largely to get around the people whose total response to the other acceptable phrase, "anti-Muslim racism" is "Muslims aren't a race" as a copout to avoid having to give any response to the substantive issues underlying the claim.

    Glad we have people like you around to completely gloss over the underlying issues and turn any debate using even the correct word into little more than a linguistic pissing match that ignores the deplorable treatment many in this country direct at anyone who happens to be Muslim though.
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  3. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    And I would suggest you respond on the issues rather than throwing out names (and doing so with the wrong word at that) as a cop-out to substantive thinking. Nothing in tex's post was inaccurate.

    Even using your definition, there is nothing "irrational" about having strong opinions regarding a religion who's proponents engage in truly deplorable conduct in the name of their faith.

    That isn't to say all Muslims engage in violence, but enough of them do to be a serious problem.
  4. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    No, having a hatred of everyone bearing a given label based on the bad actions of a few, while admitting that the bad actions do not reach everyone bearing that label, would seem to be the exact hallmark of racism/islamophobia/whatever the appropriate bias label for that group is.

    Are all muslims terrorists? As you just admitted, no. Do we have anything to suggest that a given group of muslim US citizens are terrorists? No. So why would some group of Muslims need to fear "retaliation" against them for acts of terrorism? An irrational fear of Muslims. QED.
  5. Gatorgal04
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    Gatorgal04 Lowly Fan VIP Member

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    "America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say you want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the land of the free."
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  6. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    The problem that many have with the Muslims isn't just the terrorist but how the Muslins act towards non-Muslims. I can only go by my own experience but I can tell you that when I was up in NYC over 4th of July weekend there were many Muslims in town. When I would nod or say hello not a single one ever acknowled me and it was if I was invisible. I run by a Muslim center down here and experience the same exact thing so maybe they could work on their likability if they care.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  7. The_Graygator
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    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    Racism and religious intolerance is all the libbies have when they can't defend a topic, but of course, when it comes to Christians, the lobbies are all for smothering their rights. :roll:

    As for Ben, I suggest he take a long hard look at a DVD replay of Tuesday, September 11, 2001 and then stfu about religious intolerance.
  8. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Consider the fact you were in New York City, which is not a place where native New Yorkers have been shown to be overly friendly to the average man on the street.' They will knock you over if you get in their way.

    For your 'Muslims are unfriendly' premise to have any credibility you would need to greet Muslims in many other places to establish a trend. And with the bias you have projected on this Board, I don't know that you can be perceived as a man who has any desire to be friendly towards a Muslim. Or anyone else with whom you disagree with politically.
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  9. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Having grown up in NYC, I'd say that the notion that NYer's aren't very friendly is overblown. But with so many residents, plus tourists, plus workers, cars, taxis, the constant buzz etc.., if you are in an around Manhattan, there might be a derivative of the (Kitty Genovese) bystander effect going on. People just try to get where they are going...and Muslim Americans are no different in that regard.
  10. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input, jdr. I've never lived in NYC but did live in surrounding suburbs in NJ and Connecticut for 10 plus years so I made it into the city fairly regularly. My husband worked in Manhattan for 4 of those 10 years so between the two of us we had a varied tapestry of experiences. I've seen both rude and friendly New Yorkers but for the greater part they were as you wrote - "just try[ing] to get where they are going."

    Just don't stand in their way when they are trying to get there in a hurry. :grin:
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Please, they present a clear and present danger to themselves ans well as everyone that has to be burdened by their saber-ratting. And if not for security reasons we know this leader is nothing more than a hater from hell that seeks to disrupt what should be a day of remembrance (a second memorial day, if you will) for all Americans.
  12. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    How do you think people like WBC or the Klan get protest permits (and they do) despite being offensive and intentionally disruptive? They got approved for a permit because there's not a good legal reason not to approve them for one.
  13. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Your uncanny propensity to project always amazes me.

    Carry on.
  14. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    The WBC or the Clan never do this, not that I've ever heard of, in a national million person march on a day that should be memorialized. This clown is trying to incite a violent reaction from the non Muslim peoples that have to see this garbage on a day that should be treated like Pearl Harbor day... Not on 9/11!
  15. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Well, given that their permit is for an estimated crowd of 1,000 people I think that their million number is probably puffery...

    But WBC and the Klan certainly do try to create demonstrations with the full knowledge that they may well provoke violent reactions from those who disagree with them on somber days (in the case of WBC, much more explicitly so than even this group is). You're arguing for a content based restriction that essentially boils down to "they want to say something really unpopular in a manner that lots of people are sure to strongly dislike", and that's the reason the permit application didn't get denied. Free speech protects unpopular, rude, disrespectful, and frankly abhorrent speech as well as folks with pleasant things to say (indeed the least popular speech is that which most requires the protections of free speech).
  16. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Not condoning the WBC's marches. But lets try and stick to the subject on this million man march that should never have been granted... not on that day.
  17. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    You are spot on. If you are stationary in NYC you are in the way. :)

    So you know the NE very well. And to kind of converge thread discussions for a moment, NY'ers do however, seem to have some road rage issues. I lost count of how many times I used to have a horn blown at me or gotten yelled at in my car for not moving before the light turned green, ..which to me captures that NY in a hurry attitude.
  18. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I'm not changing the subject. The reason they got approved is the exact same reason WBC protests or Klan rallies do. Because the First Amendment protects your right to say really unpopular things, to show markedly poor taste in your speech, etc.

    Would the park service have approved some other demonstration permit on 9/11 that wasn't a muslim group demonstrating about purportedly muslim issues? Almost certainly. And that's the proof that it would be a content based restriction. In light of Snyder v. Phelps, which rejected Alito's idea that WBC's protest constituted unprotected "fighting words," I don't see a real good legal justification for denying the permit.
  19. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    As I recall it was a small study done by a group of students that brought Szmelko's attention to doing the larger study on bumper stickers. http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showpost.php?p=6744435&postcount=45 The students wanted to know the average length of time it took for the driver behind an inattentive driver to honk his horn. They went out in groups with a car and driver, and as I recall, 2 observer/timers.

    The driver positioned himself as the first car in a left turn lane guarded by a left turn only arrow. He intentionally did not move when the green left turn arrow appeared. When the straight lanes turned green the left lane turned red and any cars left sitting in that lane were unable to proceed until the light went a full cycle. The students observed drivers in vehicles bearing bumper stickers, etc., were noticeably more impatient and honking their horns on average much sooner than drivers of vehicles that had no stickers.
  20. OB1
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    OB1 Active Member

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    It's just that the Muslims seem to have a much higher concentration of lunatics. While many have killed in the name of religion(all religions have at some point in their history), the Muslims do it on an everyday basis. One would have a hard time putting together a list of all Muslim terrorist acts. This list

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

    Seems to point out the regularity of these attacks. What is most troubling about the Muslims that claim they are peaceful is that very few speak out against these attacks, and that silence speaks volumes about the "religion of peace" as a whole.

    While the terrorists don't speak/act for all Muslims, they sure don't catch a lot of flack from their own! :devil:

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