Michael Sam is on course to cause some major issues

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatorman_07732, May 16, 2014.

  1. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    No, it's my belief he got screwed., but what does he have to do with Michael Sam?
  2. richmondgator81
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    richmondgator81 Well-Known Member

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    I think they are both good enough to warrant a roster spot if it weren't for the media circus they both bring to the locker room.

    All other things being equal, you prefer a player that's not going to upset the apple cart.
  3. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Tebow cost Denver a 1st round draft pick and (guaranteed) $8.7 million.
    Sam cost St. Louis a 7th round draft pick and (potentially) $420,000.

    Both were SEC Player of the year (Tebow twice).

    Tebow was also:
    • 2× BCS National Championship (2007, 2009)
    • 2× SEC Championship (2006, 2008)
    • 2× First-team All-American (2007, 2008)
    • Second-team All-American (2009)
    • 3× First-team All-SEC (2007, 2008, 2009)
    • AP Player of the Year (2007)
    • Davey O'Brien Award (2007)
    • 2× Maxwell Award (2007, 2008)
    • Heisman Trophy (2007)
    • Quarterback of the Year (2007)
    • Manning Award (2008)
    • William V. Campbell Trophy (2009)
    • etc.
    If we use Tilly's definition of a bust:

    "I consider it a bust when the best defensive player (allegedly) in the powerful SEC fails to be a very successful NFL player. We arent using draft possition as the yard stick here, we are using the SECPOY label. Thats the conversation we are having."
    If college accolades not turning into NFL success defines a bust, then Tebow has to be one of the biggest busts of all time...because "that's the conversation we're having".
  4. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    Well Tebow showed what he can do at the next level, Michael Sam not so much yet. He'll get his shot soon enough, the worst thing that can happen is he gets sent to the Jets.
  5. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but your comparison makes no sense whatsoever as your comparing apples and oranges. Tebow was a guy that put his team on his back at times and willed them to victory. He also was arguably the toughest college QB to ever play the game.
  6. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    He was great in college, one of the best ever, but by Tilly's definition that makes him one of the greatest busts in NFL history. You can't have it both ways.

    btw...Why Tebow won't go play in Canada or Europe and try to emulate Kurt Warner's career is beyond me. Not even trying...that seems very un-Tebow like.
  7. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    Tebow explained that and said his only interest was to play in the NFL He did with Denver in his second year I thought was pretty remarkable and they did the worst possible thing they could, sent him to the Jets. I'm not so sure you can appropriately say he hasn't tried.
  8. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Its a valid argument, ONLY based on the fact that he cant land a job, but not based on stats.
    ...and I know some do. But Tebow actually has been something in the league, unlike many of the guys mentioned. The guys mentioned did not directly contribute to a single win I venture to say. Tebow led a long win streak and had arguably his best game ever against the best Defense in the league. And then he vanished.
    But yes, many do consider him a bust. Though I feel that it is inaccurate to say.


    Lets examine Tebow's ACTUAL NUMBERS
    (Not just the medias version):

    In Denver he basically started 1 full season (16 games):

    16 starts:
    Record 9-7
    Playoff Record 1-1

    Total stats (Combined):
    8-6 record
    29 TD's | 9 INT | 3581 Yds

    Playoff stats (Combined):
    1-1 record
    535 YDS | 3 TD's | 0 INT

    You tell me. Those stats say "bust" to you?

    Now go look at the links I provided. 4 sacks in 5 seasons? By a SECDPOY?
    Another guy, Out of the league with basically no stats at all after 1 full season?

    Tebow combined for 350+ on the leagues best defense, in a playoff game.
    Isnt that the opposite of "bust"?

    I think he is viewed as a bust because the league doesnt want the circus, because the guy actually wins games and makes plays in the NFL. Sam has the same chance.

    My point earlier, was simply that the SECPOY doesnt guarantee, or frankly mean, anything.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  9. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    By the way @fastsix, it IS the "conversation we are having" In this thread. I did not start the conversation, I joined it.
  10. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    A 300+ yard passing game is really good, but I don't think one game defines whether a player is a bust or not. It certainly doesn't using your definition of a bust:

    "I consider it a bust when the best defensive player (allegedly) in the powerful SEC fails to be a very successful NFL player. We arent using draft possition as the yard stick here, we are using the SECPOY label. Thats the conversation we are having."
    Was Tebow the 2x SEC POY?
    Was he a very successful NFL Player?

    You seem to want to judge Sam and Tebow using different metrics. I wonder why?
    All I'm asking for is consistency.
  11. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Not that this changes your point, but...
    Tebow won it one time. Mark Ingram won it in 2009.
  12. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    He's a multi millionaire, so he has enough money to follow whatever path he wishes. I'd like to see him make it in the NFL and prove the naysayers wrong. If the only way to do that is to gain experience by playing in Canada or Europe, then I hope he does.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    What makes you so sure that would get him another chance? Wasn't the big complaint that he doesn't have an arm? I just don't think those other leagues are worth his time.
  14. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    First off, how the hell do you compare a QB with a DE?

    Riddle me this. Out of the past 16 QB's to win the Heisman, only one has won an NFL playoff game. Name him.

    What Whitlock was saying is, this whole thing was suppose to show that being gay in the NFL is no big thing. Just a football player. Same as everybody else. No different. Get to work. Make the team. Blend in. Then he gets a reality TV show all about.... I dunno.... his gayness? Name me the last 7th round draft pick that got his own TV show.

    So, is this about football, or is this about gay acceptance, or is this about gays and if they can play football, or is this about exploitation, or WHAT? Does every friggin thing we do in America have to turn into a circus?

    He's gay, we get it. He better start worrying about making special teams like every other 7th round draft pick or he is going to go the way of the gay basketball player who's name totally escapes me because...well...IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
  15. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Dude. Pay attention. Where did I call Sam a bust? I called several PAST SECDPOY's busts. (I assume they are all straight, so that kills your theory) I am not judging Tebow vs. Sam at this point. Sam hasn't played a down yet. When you asked about "busts" I judged Tebow versus these guys that I directly linked as "busts" based on articles stating such: Jarvis Jones, Morris Claiborn, Rolando McClain, Glen Dorsey, Chad Lavalais.

    The point I have tied to make is that it can be argued that Sam wasn't the best player week in and week out on his own team. Certainly not in their biggest games.

    Also, No Tebow is not a two time SECOPOY.
    And I think he actually has been a successful QB in the league, though he only has one season of starts to go on.
    I did not base my position on 1 game. Look at the stats I gave you over his two seasons in Denver. Those are VERY solid. The thing that kills him is completion percentage. But other than that, he has pretty solid numbers.
  16. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Just to back up my claim that Sam isnt the best guy on his own D-Line:

  17. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Yep, Wikipedia has it wrong.

    I'll change it when I have some time later.
  18. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    No worries, your point is still valid. I just give Tim a lot more credit for his
    NFL accomplishments than many in sports media do.
  19. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    There's never a guarantee, but if the NFL is done with the current version of Tebow, then he needs to do something to redefine who he is, or just give up on the NFL. And maybe there are NFL teams still showing interest - I guess we'll find out soon.
  20. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    His stats prior to last season are not that great and look back to his college career 2013 was his only standout year.

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