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Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by tilly, May 11, 2014.
Hey SAM give me some cheese with that whine.
So I'm wondering whether he's brilliant or stupid.
This could have been a pretty good plan. He comes out in order to put pressure on the NFL to draft him, because he knew he didn't have the actual skills to make the league. Think about it -- the society is pushing towards a greater acceptance towards the LGB community everywhere you look. While we may think of being gay as an issue on a football team, it's not much of an issue for people in the spotlight. You come out, you get presidential salutations and commendations; everyone knows your name, everyone is pulling for you, everyone is watching to see what happens.
Then you say something like he just did, and because of an assumption of homophobia it sort of becomes the mantra. SAS is on TV saying it; my local radio guys are saying it. But the truth is twofold -- he's slow and small and is far from the first conference Player of the Year not to be drafted high. And there will be chaos around him that won't be justified by his actual results on the field.
But by saying it -- by implying he's being discriminated against, it gets almost impossible to cut him. He's already the second-highest selling jersey in the league right now. If he gets cut, there will be protests and insinuations, especially if he gets a sack in a preseason game or something like that. A pretty good -- though polar opposite philosophical -- comparison is Tebow. People have an emotional investment that makes them defend him beyond reason or evidence. That's what is already happening with Sam -- he had a slow combine, his big numbers came against weak opponents, and even if all of that weren't true, college success doesn't always -- heck it rarely -- translates into the NFL. But plenty of people are saying how his "body of work" in college justified a higher pick even though it almost never does.
So he may be brilliant. But if he didn't plan this -- if he's just whining, then he's flat out dumb.
Watch the tape, the tape don't lie, the kid can play, he was all over the field when they beat us last year, easily looked like the best player on the field
The tape lies all the time. Did you ever see a better college QB than Danny? College success doesn't by definition translate into a NFL skill set. Chris Doering couldn't be covered in college but couldn't get open in the NFL.
You can be a smarter player in college and gain an advantage. In the NFL, they are all geniuses at what they do so you have to either be a lot lot smarter or you have to be of comparable talent. It doesn't look like Sam has the talent level that would make him a sure fire NFL prospect, and his draft status seemed to show that.
Tebow was better than Danny. So was jff and cam newton...but your point is well taken
There are certain QB traits that Tebow, Cam and Johnny have over Danny. There are certain traits that Danny had that are better than any of those guys. People forget how tough Danny was. One of my buddies, who played OL at the college level once said that Danny Wuerffel was "rugged." I didn't really understand that, as I always thought about him lofting strikes to Ike, Reidel and Quez. When I gave it more thought, I realized that Danny often got slammed by future NFL DL/linebackers and always got up. There's no lying in the numbers. Danny has as many Heismans and NCs as any of those guys, except Tebow. There are very few QBs who I would easily state that were better college QBs than Danny Wuerffel.
So u think Danny was a better college player than tebow, jff and cam? I think Danny was great, but not a chance was he better than one of those three.
I do. Take away the talent around Tebow and he has some trouble. Danny had a weak arm but much better vision. Neither were NFL material, but I think Danny was a better collegiate QB. People forget his junior year. He's the only Gator QB to lead UF to a perfect regular season. The Fiesta Bowl was an aberration. Danny and the 95 Gators might have been better than the 96 Gators. Will never forget how he shredded the noles his junior year. Love what Tim did for the team while he was there, but Danny was a true QB. His touch and placement with the ball and his football IQ have never been matched at UF. He's just about my favorite Gator ever.
Cam was great for one year, and it wasn't at UF. He was a slow learner and it didn't come together until his last year at Auburn. He had all the tools, but his character issues and all the transferring kept him from developing. Both Tim and Danny were almost as good as sophomores as Cam was his last year at Auburn. I still think of him as a freakish athlete with above average QB skills. His last season at Auburn was a perfect storm. But one season doesn't make him greater than Tim or Danny.
I would not dismiss him as readily as you did. None of them threw the fade pass with the accuracy Danny did. None of them lead their teams to two NC games and none of them won as many SECs as he did. In fact, none of them came close on that one.
Danny leads in yards (next is Tim at -1000 yds)
He's had more completions.
His completion % was not as high, but he was in a strictly downfield passing game.
He's second only to Tebow in SEC yds/completion
He passed for 26 more TDs than the next player (Tebow) on your list.
Passer rating in the SEC is 1) Tebow 2) Manziel 3) Danny (less than .5 behind Johnny)
These numbers don't tell the whole story, but they make a compelling case. Danny played long ago that some of us have forgotten how dominant he was. It's hard to argue against him given the numbers and I would never claim that there's "not a chance" he was a better college QB than JFF or Cam, maybe even Tim.
Danny was one a fantastic team too, he was not close to tebow, cam or jff. You are entitled to your opinion, as are we all.
Fair enough. I don't think saying Danny was a top 20 college player of all time is a slight, apparently you do.
None of your posts that I quoted included a statement that Danny was a top 20 player. I also never claimed that you were slighting him. Simply making a case that it's not so easy to claim that Tebow, JFF, and Cam were better college QBs than Danny Wuerffel.
No I simply rebutted the notion that there existed no better college qb than Danny. I think there are many, Danny was of course elite, but he was not the best.
I think the p0int of the p0st you are referring to was that though Danny was exceptional in college, that did not necessarily translate to success in the NFL. The difference in arguments is minute, as are the differences in QB assessments among players in the considered list (Danny, Tim, Johnny, Cam). Danny's output, however, cannot be questioned. Maybe he wasn't the best college QB, but it's not too difficult to make a case for him against the players you mentioned.
5th round at best. Hard worker, but he is lacking a lot for an NFL player. Before he was out of the closet he was still talked about in the 4th-6th round. Did being gay make him drop some? Who knows..it is something that can cause problems in the locker room, which while absolutely unfair, would certainly make a GM hesitate. He will be a media circus, and some guys will be very uncomfortable being his teammate. So it probably did affect his stock some, but not 4 rounds.
Interesting view on this.
2009 Tebow says hello!
Not that any of this is on point but the SECCG counts as regular-season stats.
I disagree, I don't think it's that minute. I am aware of the point in the post, it's a valid one, a great college player does not make a great pro. Danny was great, didn't mean to come across as disrespecting your guy..