Men's Health Magazine STILL getting it wrong ...

Discussion in 'Gator Country Health and Fitness' started by Dreamliner, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    Seriously, maybe they should change their name to Men's Health Bromides. Again they are acosting us with wives tales about about how reducing calories significantly slows down your metabolism and makes it overly difficult to lose weight. And similarly, how "cleaning up your diet" speeds up metabolism.

    Aside from my wife encouraging me to pursue my passion. The primary reason I got into the industry was, well, so many myths, so little time to demolish them.
  2. LeafUF
    Offline

    LeafUF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Messages:
    13,492
    Likes Received:
    303
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Wandering
    Ratings Received:
    +390
    I get frustrated by this stuff too even more so that I used to eat it up literally. I just hope fighting all the bad info doesn't drive you crazy as it seems tl have done to Martin Berkhan. He seems to have lost his mind.
  3. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    It actually drives me. How is Berkhan losing his mind ? I haven't checked his website recently.
  4. LeafUF
    Offline

    LeafUF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Messages:
    13,492
    Likes Received:
    303
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Wandering
    Ratings Received:
    +390
    His posts to facebook and twitter have gotten angrier and angrier lately. But rarely does he explain what is making him so mad. I finally stopped following because it was 3 or 4 angry rants between the good information and studies he usually posts. Then recently he basically said he was planning on quitting because he was sick of the bs.
  5. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    I can tell you I've retrenched a bit from Berkhan. I do believe that his recommendations are unnecessarily complicated (carb cycling, supplements, etc.). I further believe that the most 'magical' thing about IF is that it is a way, that works for some people, to establish a convenient calorie deficit.

    These days I'm just more inclined to tell people I stay lean by skipping breakfast. That's usually enough to get a rise out of people without bringing fasting into the mix.

    Also, Anthony Colpo has upbraided Berkhan for his 'angry rantings' of late. Seems that Berkhan got uppity when Colpo challenged him on the claims he was making for fasted training.

    Colpo is a bit of an a**hole. But I believe he's more sensible than Berkhan. For Colpo, it's ENTIRELY about calories. He tells people that if they want to lose weight they have to reduce calories. For people who want to lose weight without cutting calories, he tells them, in no uncertain terms, that they are going to have to take up an incredibly active pursuit.
  6. LeafUF
    Offline

    LeafUF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Messages:
    13,492
    Likes Received:
    303
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Wandering
    Ratings Received:
    +390
    Yeah I do not really follow much of what Berkhan spouts other than some of the outline to his IF approach. There are other proponents out there like Brad Pilon who are not nearly as big jerks about everything.

    And since I also think its really about calories when trying to lose or gain weight any method that effectively can do that for you is what should work.

    Anyway, I consider myself a casual observer and really don't need to see all these pissing matches or follow it when I can still get good info from other sources.
  7. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    Berkhan does appear to produce the most impressive physiques. I believe this is simply for two reasons: (1) calorie deficit (2) low-volume/high-intensity training.

    And to his further credit, to this day, I continue to extol reduced eating frequency as a means of enjoying more substantial meals.
  8. 96Gatorcise
    Offline

    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +1,717
    Dream there is a difference between just losing weight and becoming truly lean. To lose weight you are correct, reduce calories below maintenance and you should lose weight. But to become truly lean while still maintaining respectable muscle mass you have to get deeper into nutrition and how the body uses nutrients from food.
  9. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    96, I still don't believe it's that complicated. Reduce calories to lose fat. Strength train to preserve muscle. And I just saw reference made to a study which showed LBM maintenance on 25g protein a day. And I suspect fear of muscle loss is exaggerated too.

    Now, if you're talking about 'drying out' the abs. Then yes, water manipulation may be necessary. But I haven't seen Berkhan talking about that. And suffice to say, none of my clients are interested in that.

    And even there I've seen people get 'shrink-wrapped' through no other means than sustained calorie deficit and strength training.
  10. 96Gatorcise
    Offline

    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +1,717
    This is where I will respectfully disagree with you. Reduce calories to lose weight, you will lose both muscle and fat. Strength train to preserve muscle is wrong, strength train to break down muscle fiber, eat to build it back up to what it was or more. You need protein to supply the primary building blocks (amino acids) to repair and grow muscle.
    I an not talking about drying out but I am talking about getting to 10% body fat.

    I will call bullshit of 25g of protein to maintain, think about it, that is only 100 calories a day. Reality is you would only get 20-22g of that 25g due to digestion so we are talking 80-88 calories per day. Go ahead and try it for a month and tell me how much muscle you were able to keep.

    Most clients don't understand the difference between losing weight and losing bodyfat and most don't care they just want less of themselves
  11. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    Set aside the 25g study for a moment. You agree on calorie deficit to lose weight. You agree on strength training to preserve muscle. That speaks to leanness. So, where do we disagree ?
  12. 96Gatorcise
    Offline

    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +1,717
    I think our disagreement come to a head with reducing calories. You say reduce to lose fat, I say reduce to lose weight (including both muscle and fat)

    you say strength train to preserve muscle, I say strength train to breakdown muscle, eat protein to build muscle back up

    You don't get lean just reducing calories unless you are lean to begin with. As in your case when you cut out the PB and J sandwiches. AN overweight person will lose both muscle and fat when just reducing calories without paying attention to the type of and how many calories are reduced. You cut carbs and then replace 2/3 of the carb cut with more protein and fat. thus creating a 1/3 calorie reduction. You still get plenty of protein for muscle repair and growth (to recover from strength training) and you re teach your body to use fat as a fuel source instead of carbs
  13. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    96, I commented on the protein thread. But what are your thoughts on protein synthesis ? In other words, what do you think it actually does ? I have my doubts as to whether it has much to do with muscle growth.
  14. 96Gatorcise
    Offline

    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +1,717
    Protein synthesis is the mechanism of muscle repair. Muscle activity be it daily living, lifting weights or running breaks down muscle fiber. We are in a constant flux of building up( anabolism) or breaking down (catabolism). Protein supplies the building blocks for muscle repair and the body responses to stimuli placed upon it.

    S.A.I.D. principle specific adaptation to imposed demand

    impose a demand to muscle that causes it to break down and the body will repair that muscle through protein synthesis to grow (during recovery) to be able to handle the stress, specific adaptation.

    I explain it like this to my clients. you go out and do yard work, you do it hard enough that a blister forms and pops on your hand the body in turn repairs the skin and grows it back thicker (callus) to be able to handle the work next time and not blister the skin.
  15. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    Not to disagree with the callus analogy, I know that, at very least, you do toughen or even thicken fibers through resistance training, but I wonder if you interpret the following study the way I do. If 'anabolic stimulus' is synonymous with protein synthesis, it seems to cast down on the connection between it and muscle growth:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140

    I'm leaning more and more to the theory that muscle growth has more to do with mechanical stress (and less to do with nutrition) than is commonly believed.

    My son experienced the glories of juvenile muscle growth the last year-and-a-half. He actually reduced calories, lost five pant sizes ... and his weight essentially didn't change, leading to the assumption that he lost a lot of fat and gained a lot of muscle pretty much simultaneously (probably more circuitous than that). Point is that he sure didn't eat for gaining twenty pounds of muscle. My surmise is that he had it in him and the strength training brought it out.

    He's not quite the ectomorph his dad is. But I remember doing Nautilus, in college, and probably gained all the muscle due me in a few short months. And I don't remember eating for that either. Certainly didn't take a protein supplement.
  16. 96Gatorcise
    Offline

    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +1,717
    I read it as direct support of what I have been saying. To have positive protein synthesis (repair and growth) you need a level of amino acids (protein) greater than what has been broken down by exercise (mechanical process) If the amino acids are not present in sufficient quantities you body will continue to breakdown muscle through protein metabolism (bodies response to exercise).

    As for your son and you in your youth, insulin and testosterone are at their peak So protein intake is used for repair most efficiently. A small amount can go a long way. Also both of you may have been practicing proper nutrition timing without even realizing that you were doing it. Getting in protein and carb in the magic hour after a workout to maximize recovery and growth. Also you may have reduced calories in the sense that you were WAY over what your body needed for recovery and growth, you reduced calories down to proper levels so excess storage was no longer happening. You eat and than used it. I would surmise if you continued reducing calroies beyond this balance point you and your son would have experienced the negative affects (catabolism)

    One other thing we are both doing in this discussion is limiting it to muscle growth. There is a whole array of functions that are happening in the body that require amino acids to happen correctly. Hence why a higher level of intake is required, one to maintain regular everyday bodily function and two grow above these functions and maintain the new level of growth with regression.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. 96Gatorcise
    Offline

    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    549
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +1,717
    Not sure how in depth your cert. gets into it but you may consider getting a current exercise physiology text book. Heck I should do the same its been 16 years since I cracked one open, I am pretty sure they updated a thing or two since I last took a class in ex phys.
  18. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    Couple of comments:

    Since 'muscle growth' is in view, the study does conform that post-workout protein infusion does foster protein repair, it differentiates this from muscle growth.

    As to my son, I would actually adduce his experience as evidence that nutrition has less to do with muscle growth than is commonly believed. He made two notable changes: (1) he added strength-training and (2) he REDUCED calories.
  19. Dreamliner
    Online

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,367
    Likes Received:
    483
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,305
    On the research end, yes, IFTA materials do belabor the biochemistry, I'd say nearly half the material. I also have the ACSM materials. However, I frequently come across recent studies which seem to run counter to, or at least serve to modify claims I read in both the IFTA and ACSM materials.

    In any case, there is lab science and there is field science. I am privileged to see people losing weight and getting stronger and improving health markers all at once. So, I just don't tend to worry about 'muscle loss.' If the weight is going down and performance is going up, it's a win-win in my view.

Share This Page