Malala Yousafzai

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. gregthegator
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    gregthegator Well-Known Member

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    ok...ok....I'll marry her and she can come to the states and be safe!

    By the way...MOST muslims are JUST like YOU and I....so are MOST all OTHER beliefs...that's 90% of THE human race...

    Why we as humans ALLOW the 10% to RUIN everything is BEYOND my comprehension???
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I am claiming that if it happening is front page flip-flapjacking news worldwide, it is obviously not what happens usually or publicly or with much impact. I mean, good grief, aren't you supposed to be a member of the media of some kind, but that doesn't get across to you? That if voices of moderation and reform in Islamic societies were prevalent or effective it would NOT be a major media event, a Nobel prize considerable event, for a Muslim girl to suggest other Muslim girls shouldn't be raped, tortured, and oppressed?

    But it is... and, by your own terms, on a non-Malala day/week/month, you have to dig around on google or Wikipedia to find the supposedly strong voices of Muslim moderation around the cacophony of radical jihadism.
  3. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    So let me get this straight:
    If there are no news stories about Muslims opposing terrorism, you'll claim it doesn't happen.
    If there are news stories about it, you claim it must be really rare.


    Let me guess, if there's a news story about Republicans criticizing Obama, we should assume it's a very rare occurrence. After all, it warranted a story.
  4. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    She also might be the only person in the known universe that everyone in this forum all collectively like.
  5. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I don't have to claim it is rare. It is rare. And what stories/columns there are, I daresay mostly focus on *the need*, the unmet demand for stronger moderate voices. Not names and messages people have to root around in an NPR blog for. Can you name a voice that speaks for moderate Muslims OTHER than the 16 year old who, plucky as she is, has no polish or gravitas for the role at this time but has rather been sucked in to the very vacuum of which I speak? Of course you can't. I mean, you can and may even google someone to site whom nobody will have heard of who isn't lying, but again, makes my point. I can name some people who speak for radical nutjob jihadism. I can name people who claim, at least, to speak for the black community. I could name for either category and people would probably know "oh, that guy". But I couldn't find you the MLK of moderate muslims, or even the Sharpton. There isn't one. They are a silent (we hope) majority, maybe a silent minority (to test that -- anyone notice that there are probably more people in this girl's country supporting the death threats than sharing her grievances?). You are being utterly ridiculous, to feign misunderstanding here, let alone to actually misunderstand, I don't know would be worse.
  6. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    I tried to think of who the lightning rod for Muslim moderates might be. There isn't anyone that comes to mind. I'm talking about that national leader who is willing to take the heat from radical Islamists and speak truth to radicalism and it boils down to this little girl. Sad situation when the adult Muslims are hiding in fear. She should be surrounded by moderate Muslim supporters who, like her, are willing to die for their beliefs. They simply are not there.
  7. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    She is an incredible young lady!
  8. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    OK, moderate Muslims don't speak out against terrorism except when they do. And then it doesn't count because you haven't heard of them.
  9. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Bringing it down from 45 to 33 1/3 to try again -- if a 16 year old whose sole credential and credibility comes from having not died from being shot in the head, if she is the sole mouthpiece with any name recognition whatsoever, for moderation or reform in a religious culture of over a BILLION PEOPLE... then there is an obvious and indisputable vacuum that she is being forced to fill. Not a tough concept.
  10. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Except you are basing all of this on a completely false premise. There are tons of examples. Even thinking about the Daily Show exclusively, they have had on Yousseff Bassem, a satirical talk show host from Egypt that was arrested for "Insulting Islam" and Morsi in specific. Jon Stewart just went to film a movie about Maziar Bahari, a former guest of his show that was imprisoned and accused of being a Zionist in Iran.

    And that is just off the top of my head involving one TV show. Obviously, there are a variety of political leaders, activists, journalists, etc. of varying levels of fame in different regions that represent a moderate form of Islam.
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  11. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Thanks for disproving my point about name recognition by providing people without any...? I guess? I'm not setting a bar here like you have to find me someone with the name recognition of Lady Gaga, either -- I am saying you could find politically literate people, and while most could fire off 2-3 vocal jihadist kooks, they would have to google moderate Muslims, a search term ripe for the same gag as "French military victories".
  12. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    He claims it rarely happens. Not that it never happens. And he is right.

    My goodness the irony is thick.
  13. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    so river, et.al.,

    Please, off the top of your head name for us several moderate Muslims. Ones that get a lot of press. Ones that speak for the supposed majority of Muslims, not just the extremists.

    Off the top of your head please. No cheating.
  14. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    My own contemplation here has led to three basic pools where you can at least find some "oh yeah, him/her" caliber recognition --

    1) Moderate Muslims Who Aren't Actually Muslims -- Brigette Gabriel, for example, is a Lebanese Christian who has forgotten more about what it is like to be a woman, or really anybody, in a Muslim society with a strong fundamentalist element than any New Paltz white liberal will ever know. She is at least a vocal voice against oppression and a career and education to put into her arguments.

    2) Moderate Muslims Who Aren't Much of Anything -- here is basically your "hot actress/pageant winner" category that gains some notoriety and a few death threats for baring the hotness, but doesn't actually have much skill, knowledge, or interest to be an activists. Couple blogs and out, most of them.

    3) Moderate Muslims Who Get Killed -- Bhutto leaps to mind, who had fancy of going to the motherland and championing the moderation and reform we are talking about... and are quickly murdered for their trouble. This is the most tragic category, and probably the biggest reason that a lot of the message that should belong to moderate Muslims has to be carried by the other two categories -- because they just want to live as they wish as best they can without getting noticed and killed for it.

    Malala's future will ultimately break into one of those three paths, I would wager -- maybe she leaves her faith altogether and becomes a vocal activist against it in a life of western apostasy with bodyguards. I don't know if she is pretty or not, to be honest, but she may even have opportunities in that second track. Or she will be assassinated trying to stay in the trenches amongst her people trying to dig their society out of the crapper.
  15. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I couldnt name several "moderates" who pretend or do speak for the "supposed" majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus or Buddists either on any issue. Not sure why that matters.
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  16. mdgator05
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    You are jumping all over the place.

    You started with this statement:

    Patently false as the Daily Show alone has regularly brought on moderate Muslims, including those I mentioned above. As far as name recognition, they have huge amounts of name recognition in their home countries. Bassem is a gigantic name in Egypt. Bahari has a major movie being made about him, is a best selling author, and used to work as a correspondent for Newsweek (back when magazines like Newsweek mattered). So basically what you want is:

    A famous moderate Muslim that is specifically famous in the US (a 0.6% Muslim country) who has been covered some by the media (after all how did they get famous if not for media coverage), but not too much as too much coverage is a signal of their rarity?

    Mohammed ElBaradei work? Most of the politically literate in the US could pick him out as he was a figure in world politics. King Abdullah II of Jordan work? I mean, clearly not a democratic person, but most would consider him moderate religiously and has been more than willing to talk about it.
  17. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    Malala Yousafzai meets with the Obamas in the Oval Office

  18. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    Moderate Muslims for 1000 Alex
    And the answer Zero
    What is the names of Moderate Muslims the average person might know
  19. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Why would an average person know the name of moderate muslims?

    I wouldn't know the name of radical muslims either if they didn't blow crap up. I'm sorry saying "we don't support that" draws less news coverage than, you know, killing people?

    Are you regularly reading Islamic press sources? Because if not I have no idea why you would expect religious reformers in a religion that - if we're being very, very generous, makes up about 1% of the population in the US - to be a household name to you.
  20. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I haven't budged an inch off my point from the start, it has just been alternately misunderstand or misrepresented, probably subject to convenience.

    As for El-Baradei and the King of Jordan... how low a bar it takes to qualify as "moderate" is a daunting problem in its own right, clearly.

    Ben, why shouldn't average non-Muslim westerners with some political literacy know some names? Not hard to name the fundies, for sure. And not hard for non-conservatives or non-liberals to cover the spectrum on the other side, from moderate to extreme.

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