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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by HudsonGator, Jun 17, 2013.
Also a comical assumption that illegals are all picking oranges in California and peaches in Ga.
I'm not sure that supporting "life long parasites" (irrespective of whether that statement is accurate or not) isn't cheaper than the cost increases that paying markedly more to have, what you clearly believe to be less hardworking (and thus probably less efficient), people perform unskilled labor would create.
You don't have the easy choice of "just pay people more to be farm laborers," you also have to consider the significant price increases in farm goods that doing so would create. And I would venture to guess that most people are already paying more for groceries every year than they are into Medicaid/SNAP/Section 8/etc.
Doubling your grocery bill in exchange for some unquantifiable reduction in the amount you are paying for entitlement programs has the distinct possibility of being the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Tea Party... baby! :grin:
Why is it that you consistently conflate legal immigration with illegal immigration?
First we build a fence then we talk about solutions to our already burgeoning number of illegals that are already here.
how does lindsey graham keep getting reelected?
How is he doing so? None of the states that have realized the economic problems that harsh immigration enforcement creates were attempting to do anything with regard to legal immigrants.
We have huge sectors of our economy that are more or less dependent on undocumented laborers. Finding a way to bring that sector of the work force out of the dark so that we can more effectively regulate it would clearly be desirable, but just yelling "send the illegals home!" is incredibly shortsighted and doesn't address the significant problems that doing so would create.
Labor shortages due to immigration reform is real. These are facts.
And the shortage isn't just in agriculture either.
In construction (in North Carolina)
In hospitality industries (California)
As they say, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Yes, perhaps if we changed our unemployment laws and made it less comfortable to not work, some would take these jobs. But not many. Georgia even tried prison labor, but it didn't work as well as hoped.
Maybe we can go back to more subsistence farming, but that's not going to work to well in high density areas such as New York City, or Los Angeles. Nor will it work in areas with high populations in harsher climes, like Phoenix. There are plenty of farms around Phoenix (Google Queen Creek), but I can tell you, this time of the year, with temperatures consistently above 100 degrees, not much is growing. Not to mention, the amount of water it would take would make it cost prohibitive to grow all the food to feed the ~4 million Phoenicians rather than import the food from other regions.
We need a system that matches supply of cheap labor with our demand. In a perfect world, there would be no more and no less. Our current policies come no where near meeting demand. Neither does our own citizenry. Our best course then is to change our policies. It really is, and should be, that simple.
Laws are laws, if you don't like them then change them legally.
Umm, that's exactly what people are trying to do. It's just met with the foolish "No! Deport everyone and to hell with vegetables, and building things, and restaurants, and hotels!" cry.
The parties are so different over the last 50 years in their support that this prediction is beyond stupid. Yet another overhyped white lawyers in DC among the legions.
There certainly has been a shift in the demographics supporting each party, but that doesn't change the fact that doubling down on a strategy of going further and further out to appeal to an ever shrinking demographic, in a way that will turn off others for years, is a monumentally stupid endeavor.
No he's not right, a majority of Americans are against this, he would gain more votes than lost. Like the Inepedents and Blue Dogs.
Blame Lindsey's parents. Any parent who names their "male" child "Lindsey" is creating a gender confused kid who becomes a senile adult who knows not what party he is pulling for.
That's right, deport them and let them wait in line like the rest on the immigrants have been doing legally for generations before we let them into our country again.
This is a dumb argument.
"We need immigrants here for low wage labor."
"Well then change the law."
"We're trying to."
"NO, you can't change the law to that, that's not what the law already says!"
"No kidding, that's why it needs changing."
Got damn, some of you really think our country would shrivel into a little ball without illegal mexicans. Lol.
I've talked with business owners who said they couldn't make it without Mexicans. Nursery and landscape owners.
The floral fern business around Pierson, south of Palatka, started trucking in Mexicans 25 years ago because they couldn't find anyone else to do the work. You want to tell those farmers they should go out of business because you're offended about something?
Would you pick fruits for an annual wage of between $5,000 and $7,500 dollars? Do you know of ANYONE who would?
That's the average annual income for agricultural workers, taking into account both farm wages and other income sources. Source: http://www.doleta.gov/agworker/report/ch3.cfm
How much do you figure it would cost to get a US citizen to spend their life bent over in a field in the Florida sun picking strawberries and tomatoes all day? I'd wager that it's 2 or 3 times that level at least.
Are you prepared to have the cost of fruits and vegetables double or triple in exchange for, well, no noticeable benefit really?
Regardless of the illegal immigrant issue. The GOP has a problem with its message. They are on the wrong side of a lot of social issues, regardless of how some posters on this board think that social issues are the driver to elections. The social issues have been divisive and not caused people to flock to the GOP. They have gotten away from what made them great; they used to be for opportunity and limited government. However, Bush II saw one of the most far-reaching expansions of federal power with Medicare Part D and reorganization of the federal government and creation of Homeland Security. Most of the legislation that has been argued about over the past few weeks originated under Bush II after 9/11. Who would have ever thought that a Republican would have started a program to spy on Americans.
They have simply lost their way and gotten away from their core message of fiscal responsibility, individual freedom and smaller government. Which at its core is the reason I still support the party. However, I am now in the minority; as the never ending War on Terror has suspended most Republican's rationality because we have now been bred to believe we should be in a constant state of fear from the Islamic bogey-man.
We had all of this surveillance in place and it didn't stop Boston. So, is this all really worth it?
Here in SC we call him "Gramnesty" and have been for years. He's not even going to win the next election, people in this state can't stand him. He's a dead man walkng when it comes to politics.