Kentucky Worries About Attendance

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by GothamGator, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. akaGatorhoops
    Offline

    akaGatorhoops Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +1,396
    Bert,

    You get very defensive about the topic and do not seem capable of wrapping your head around the fact that some fans.... me included.... may not like the one-and-done model. Would I turn back Bradley Beal? Absolutely not. But do I want annual turnover of 3-5 freshmen? Nope.
    Still, you are likely right. . . that the volume of UK fans makes whatever small percentage of those turned off by the one-and-done approach moot.
  2. REM08
    Offline

    REM08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    4,861
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Ratings Received:
    +706
    I defend the one-and-done stuff so much here that some of you probably forget the fact that I've said I prefer, and derive more enjoyment from, a style that relies more on returning players. I LOVE getting to see players develop over time and miss getting to watch pieces from four different recruiting classes come together each year. I like that more.

    When it comes down to it though, I want results (not "win at all costs" - big difference). I want final fours and titles. What I've defended of Cal's approach are the results. I'd take his approach with his results over Tubby's any day of the week. However, I'd still prefer Tubby's style (or whoever) over Cal's if the results were the same.

    I think some fans just enjoy following the team more than they actually care about final fours and championships. I respect that and notice that these fans have distanced themselves somewhat from the team recently. Its a minority but a percentage nonetheless.

    My only caveat here is that I still think we're having somewhat of a flawed discussion here by assuming that coaches who don't recruit like Cal does are all choosing to not recruit like Cal does. I think reality lies somewhere between that assumption and the assumption that every coach goes out and tries to get the most talented possible players that fit their system. I'd lean towards the truth being much closer to the latter.
  3. themistocles
    Offline

    themistocles Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    12,849
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +462
    Bakaduin hit the proverbial nail on the head. As the home environment becomes more efficient and less expensive all the time, while precisely the opposite is true for the arena situation, this will become increasingly a difficulty for attendance except against high quality opponents.

    I simply don't buy the one-and-done thing at all. As long as they are competitive nationally, fans don't care whether it is Grandma Moses playing center or Billy Bob Unknown.

    Giving student prime seating is simply beyond important, it is vital. Amazing that at Kentucky of all places, the student seating isn't good.
  4. REM08
    Offline

    REM08 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    4,861
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Ratings Received:
    +706

    Haha - grandma moses. Good take.

    The school's perspective has been that any good seat given to the student is one less good seat that can earn top dollar (not just ticket value but K-fund donations etc). Whats unfortunate about this is that while the students are among the loudest fans, the rich old people ("blue hairs" they're called) that have the money and the long-time family owned seats are the types that sit there like they're at the opera. They're great fans. I know some old women who know more about college basketball than you'd believe. They just don't stand up and aren't very loud.
  5. BEH
    Offline

    BEH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +41
    Sorry but I sure as heck was not defensive. I just tried to state the facts that I know. I tried to list all the reasons that would limit attendance. But the fact that the tickets are sold means that UK is not going to do anything different because they still get their money.

    Plus what gets me are the fans on this board that state they are so against the one and done players, yet never respond to Billy D. offering scholarships to those very same players year after year that are one and done. And what is even more remarkable is the apparent belief that Billy would turn them down after he got ONE. The real truth is that Billy D. would not turn down a one of them. If Billy could have signed 4 of the top ten players this year he would have. If you think differently, I will sell you some nice ocean front property in Kentucky.
  6. tilly
    Offline

    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    22,207
    Likes Received:
    1,964
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC via FLA
    Ratings Received:
    +6,354
    Rupp... Its on my bucket list. I haven't been there yet.
    I agree that the O-dome has pretty good sight lines even in the 3rd level.
    Compare it to the Smith Center where its like watching ants play.
  7. BEH
    Offline

    BEH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +41
    Tilly, Rupp is big and at the top the guys are quite small. But Rupp has good sight lines for a large facility and it is not "cramped". The O-dome has few bad seats.

    What I like about Rupp is that if I go to a game I simply stay at one of the hotels at Lexington Center and I don't worry about weather, food, drink or parking. It costs a lot but you don't need to worry.

    The best place that I have been to see basketball is the Yum Center. It is state of the art and simply a nice venue. However, it can cost to park and you have the long walk, or at the least I did and I did it on 65 year old legs.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. akaGatorhoops
    Offline

    akaGatorhoops Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +1,396
    Didn't we already have this discussion???

    Yes, Billy does recruit many of the same players as UK. But as stated, the difference is, Florida does not plan nor even intend on landing all of them. Calipari and UK does.
    ALL coaches recruit more players than they plan on acquiring, because they realistically know they will not acquire them all. The fact that Donovan recruits many of the same players, does not change the fact that there is a difference in recruiting philosophy between he and Calipari.

    I am sure you are aware of this. I am not sure why you can not simply state. . ."Yes, we have targeted and marketed our program and philosophy to one-and-done type players, and it has worked tremendously well for us".

    The suggestion that Calipari's approach is just run-of-the-mill recruiting that mirrors all other top programs. . . is either denial or ignorance.

    I will let you pick.

    The fact is, Cal has been very successful at selling his program as a stopping point, stage and developmental one-year platform for many of the nation's best. He markets this better than, and more aggressively than any other coach in the country. There is nothing wrong with that. But to deny it, well it makes you look foolish.
  9. tommyuf21
    Offline

    tommyuf21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,623
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    Not only does he market his system very well, but he has the relationships with agents and AAU coaches and handlers that stand to gain the most when their guys get to the league quickly.

    They, in turn, push their kids towards UK.

    While Billy maintains good relationships with these people (dissing them would be committing suicide), he does not get the same cooperation, so he may get one or two One and Dones in a 3-5 year period, where Cal gets multiple ones just about every year.

    The only way to change that dynamic would be to prohibit agents from any contact whatsoever with amateurs. The AAU system as it stands would have to be completely overhauled to remove any agent influence from the coaches. That's not likely to happen unless some huge scandal erupts and the NCAA is forced to make some action.

    I'm not holding my breath.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. GatorPlanet
    Online

    GatorPlanet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    6,439
    Likes Received:
    177
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Maitland, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +700
    The biggest factor is societal trends. Young people are clearly not as into the traditional sports as previous generations were. You see empty seats in football and basketball arenas more and more each season.

    Athletic directors should be afraid. Very afraid. If attendance continues to decline, major restructuring of big-time college sports will be needed.
  11. dailydoublecat
    Offline

    dailydoublecat Respected Rival

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,973
    Likes Received:
    335
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +741
    Rupp is on my bucket list as well......perhaps one day!
  12. GATORinKY22
    Offline

    GATORinKY22 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +75
    Just to give a little insight on this, I live in Northern Kentucky and am surrounded by Kentucky fans including my family. My brother is three years older than I, both of us being in our mid twenties. The past three years we have been to Gainesville twice for the Florida vs UK game and have made no effort at all to try to attend the game at Rupp. Partly because the weather is nicer during late basketball months but mainly because the price of tickets for a good game at Rupp is outrageous no matter where you sit. Sitting in the upper section at Rupp is absolutely miserable with bleacher seats, everyone is packed in way too tight with people kneeing you in the back as you try not to knee the people in front of you. Sitting in the lower part of the arena is impossible if you're trying to find a fair price and many are owned by season ticket holders.

    On a side note, I was sitting in the lower section for a Florida game at Rupp one time as a 16 year old and had a hot dog thrown on me by an older man from the upper section.... For this and other reasons, I'll never go to an opposing area/stadium in any sport wearing my team colors.
  13. red4512
    Offline

    red4512 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,222
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +428
    Not at UK. They said they would be undefeated. HAHAHAHAHA!!
    Not at UK. The #1 preseason team in the NCAA. HAHAHAHAHHA!!
    Not at UK. With who knows how many McDonald All-Americans? HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
    And what does a burger joint know about bball anyway?
    UK bball- on the way out of the top 25 and falling!
  14. 08gatorbait
    Offline

    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    192
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +968
    Calipari's best move is not some magical recruiting touch. It was the Wagners. Befriending the most powerful man in AAU, well, helps you recruit. Before anyone ask who I am talking about, here's the link to the man known as World Wide Wes. Now I can't prove Cal uses this guy to recruit, but common sense would lead you to believe he certainly has a part considering how close he and Cal are. Page 2 helps describe how him and Cal became close, btw, and pages four and five show his power in the AAU scene. Calipari got Rose and Evans soon after becoming friends with Wes, crazy coincidence of course :p.
    http://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/200706/william-wesley-worldwide-wes-nba-basketball?currentPage=1
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  15. dailydoublecat
    Offline

    dailydoublecat Respected Rival

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,973
    Likes Received:
    335
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +741
    I have no problem with Calipari being linked to WWW...connections matter in recruiting! I take it you feel like this is a bad thing, but I think it's great!

    Jeff
  16. 08gatorbait
    Offline

    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    192
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +968
    Didn't claim it was a bad thing. Claimed it was brilliant. Big difference lol.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. dailydoublecat
    Offline

    dailydoublecat Respected Rival

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,973
    Likes Received:
    335
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +741
    I apologize then for that mistake. I should have taken the time to read exactly what you were saying instead of jumping in.

    Jeff
  18. 08gatorbait
    Offline

    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    192
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Tampa
    Ratings Received:
    +968
    I don't make what I'm saying clear a lot of times so no worries. I wasn't claiming it was a negative. He took a risk and it paid off major. As long as it's not cheating, which having friends is not, it's fine with me. I just hope he falls short to us every year of course. :)
  19. tommyuf21
    Offline

    tommyuf21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,623
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    The problem is the system that allows agents to have contact with amateurs. This opens up a can of worms that the NCAA has chosen so far to ignore.
  20. Osiris_DPM
    Online

    Osiris_DPM Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,990
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +873
    Holy terminology, no kidding!

Share This Page