Just the facts on elite coaches

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by SeaBud, Oct 13, 2013.

  1. SeaBud
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    SeaBud Active Member

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    Name the last coach to win an SEC title who did not win at least an SEC divisional title in their first 3 years at that school?

    Bama 2012 Saban - SEC west champ in 2nd year (2008), Nat. champ year 3
    LSU 2011 Miles - SEC west champ in 1st year (2003)
    Auburn 2010 Chizik - SEC champ in 2nd year
    Bama 2009 Saban
    Fla 2008 Meyer - SEC champ, nat. champ 2nd year
    LSU 2007 Miles
    Fla 2006 Meyer
    Georgia 2005 Richt - SEC champ 2nd year (2002)
    Auburn 2004 Tuberville - SEC west champ 2nd year
    LSU 2003 Miles
    Georgia 2002 Richt
    LSU 2001 Saban - SEC champ 2nd year
    Fla 2000/99 Spurrier - SEC champ 2nd year
    Tenn 1998 Fulmer - SEC champ in 5th year

    Answer: Miles, Saban, Meyer, Chizik, Spurrier, Tuberville and even Richt won a championship in their first 2 years. You have to go back to Fulmer in the 90's to find a coach who ultimately won an SEC championship that did not win a championship in his first 3 years!

    And going before that: Spurrier, Stallings (3rd year national title), you have to go back 23 years, to Fulmer again, to find a coach that won an SEC who didn't win something in their first 3 years. I stopped there because the pattern is clear.

    One can argue that the analysis "self selects" - ie coaches who do not win early do not stay around long enough to ever win. But Fulmer did not go on to create a dynasty. History shows that elite coaches start to win championships fairly quickly.

    These are just facts and do not say "fire" CWM (and we can still win a weak Eastern division this year). But to not factor in such history is to be blind.
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  2. gatorr4life
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    gatorr4life Well-Known Member

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    Great post. Rep
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  3. acegator
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    acegator Member

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    Nice post. Would like to see one nation wide.
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  4. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    To win titles, I think muschamp needs a few changes on his staff
  5. tomis_gator
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    tomis_gator New Member

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    I don't think many are claiming Muschamp is elite...he's obviously not (and quite far from it in my opinion) but I guess the hope is that he can become elite...we'll see but I'm not holding my breath.
  6. xenythx
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    xenythx Well-Known Member

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    Stoops, Carroll, and Tressel all won titles in their second year too. And they all inherited much less talent than Muschamp.
  7. SECund2nun
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    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I am hoping he can become elite. We will see what he does once his recruiting classes take over as the players. That is the true judgment. I can't imagine at that the very least we won't have consistent elite defenses and running games.
  8. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    Along with meyer & chizik
  9. wulimaster
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    wulimaster Member

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    Gambler's fallacy
  10. sec1
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    sec1 VIP Member Premium Member

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    Great post !!!!
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  11. Nicho
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    Nicho Well-Known Member

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    Most of the coaches mentioned in this thread did not win a title two years into their HC *career*. So if you are implying that Muschamp has hit his ceiling as a HC, I would say that the facts you've presented do not support that.
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  12. sec1
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    sec1 VIP Member Premium Member

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    The coaches all won some sort of championship when they had the players to work with like boom has ... All the coaches won
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  13. antny
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    antny Well-Known Member

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    I call bs. I am frustrated we haven't progressed more but to say they had less talent isn't true.

    Those guys may not have had as much overall but they had functional players in key positions. We are hurting at qb ol te and wr. For various reasons stated ad nauseum we have tons of talent but huge holes at key positions as well.
  14. kkg8r
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    kkg8r Premium Member

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    Please also update how many of these coaches were FIRST TIME head coaches. You cannot compare Muschamp to Saban or any other coach with head coach tenure. You just can't.
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  15. diehardgator1
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    diehardgator1 Well-Known Member

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    And along with Tebow and PH
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  16. ironhead1
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    ironhead1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just wondering what happens to all of these "elite" coaches after they have success by year three.
    Not to disparage the ol ball coach but if he was elite,given the definition by the op, why hasn't he won a championship at SC?
    Also, if Richt is an "elite" coach why hasn't he won an SEC title recently?
  17. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    False premise as Nicho points out.

    I presume that Foley knew that this was a long term commitment, and was willing to give Champ time to grow.

    How many of those coaches followed a train wreck like UF had after Urban Meyer's semi-retirement? Are we certain that any established, successful coaches would have been interested in repairing the basic structure, while being measured against Urban's two national championships; and of course, as always at UF, against Spurrier's record?

    Champ made at least one big mistake. He was dazzled by Charlie Weiss. So, he had to start over with a new OC after one year. At the same time his offensive squad was built, such as it was, for an entirely different system; so he had to recruit almost from scratch for the system he wants to run; again with little help from non-recruiter Weiss and new guy Pease.

    Next year is when evaluations of Champ are relevant.

    Sec1; I do not agree that Champ has the players to work with. He inherited no line depth on either side of the ball. He has shored it up with transfers and JUCOs but it is still thin; although he is working hard to repair it.
  18. secgator
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    secgator Well-Known Member

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    Nor can anyone say Meyer inherited less talent than Muschamp--Chris Leak ring a bell? Among plenty of others. Meyer found the cupboard fairly well stocked.

    Chizik?? Give us all a break with that one. Zook would have won a NC with the freakish play of Scam that year.

    This thread almost comes across as a "justify the complaints" of Muschamp thread. Every fan of Florida is frustrated right now, but to try and compare Muschamp to those other coaches in their early days in the SEC is not at all a fair assessment. As someone else pointed out, most of the coaches had been coaching elsewhere as HC before they landed where they did in the SEC. Go look at THEIR first years as a HC.
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  19. swampbabe
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    swampbabe Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, a level headed, logical post is not allowed. :tongue:
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  20. antny
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    antny Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but you can have chizik. Ill gladly take muschamp. Elite??
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