Just can't explain it...abortion

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. gatornana
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    I can't agree with you here......life is more complex than black and white. I agree that people aim for the easiest and less painful path but in order to do that, they'd turn to black and white. Gray areas are what present the most difficult path. Weighing options, looking at future consequences create the most turmoil and emotional pain. Seeing life as black and white provides the easy answer so there's little to no turmoil. There's little choice.....the answer is there for you.

    Without a doubt life hands us black and white along with gray area dilemmas.......to resolve these serious, painful dilemmas, we have to be afforded freedom and trust to make the right decision, whether it's a choice others agree with or not. Relying on a black and white decision making process for life's serious dilemmas is fine for those comfortable with that.....but to impose that on others says there's no trust in other individuals nor the desire to extend to them the same freedom you have to stay within the realm of black and white.
  2. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Nana, if my memory serves me you are RC.

    Can you tell me if the sixth commandment (from the Bible, not the catechism) is black and white?
  3. gatornana
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    I'm not RC.....Congregational/UCC
  4. MichiGator2002
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    I can help -- a Catholic can't really answer that question meaningfully, because Catholics reject sola scriptura theology. You can't ask a Catholic a blanket question about Scripture and forbid them to rely on the teaching authority Christ gave the Church (without which we wouldn't even know what texts made up the Scripture anyway).
  5. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Thou shalt n0t murder and the RCC's position on abortion is set in stone i believe and admire them for it.

    The reason for my ( ) was the catechism leaves out the second commandment (Idols/graven images) and splits the tenth (covets neighbors house, then wife) to keep ten.
  6. DaveFla
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    So, a woman is free to cut her own arm off, should she so desire?
  7. DaveFla
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    Are you purposefully being obtuse? Or is it merely a flaw in your character?

    Gosnell, as you may recall, was guilty of inducing the delivery of the children, then killing them. Hence, the moment before the child is born, and considering the timeframe in which he chose to begin the procedure, it wasn't a crime. However, the moment the child emerged from the womb, that same child who was protected by law a moment before, is now suddenly a "person"?

    How is this NOT inconsistent?
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  8. Gatormb
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    Is that where you must be Baptized in a UCC church or just that you must be baptized for salvation?

    In any event I believe you differ with your church doctrine on abortion/
  9. gatornana
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    United Church of Christ.....infant baptism in the Congregational church.

    http://www.ucc.org/
  10. gatornana
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    United Church of Christ
    Position: Pro
    to the question "Should Abortion Be Legal?"
    Reasoning:
    "God has given us life, and life is sacred and good. God has also given us the responsibility to make decisions which reflect a reverence for life in circumstances when conflicting realities are present. Jesus affirmed women as full partners in the faith, capable of making decisions that affect their lives...
    The United Church of Christ has affirmed and re-affirmed since 1971 that access to safe and legal abortion is consistent with a woman’s right to follow the dictates of her own faith and beliefs in determining when and if she should have children...
    We have also supported that women with limited financial means should be able to receive public funding in order to exercise her legal right to the full range of reproductive health services. What is legally available to women must be accessible to all women."

    http://abortion.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=009911
  11. MichiGator2002
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    I can't reconcile a nominally Christian theology placing a woman's right to the most self-indulgent act imagined by human invention over the lives of those whom God has known in the womb.
  12. gatornana
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    Refreshing.....women are considered equals and trusted to make their own decisions.
  13. MichiGator2002
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    Again... with Scripture explicitly acknowledging the life in the womb as, y'know, a life, a soul... yeah, no, just don't see it. A child having life from conception does not make the woman unequal or deprive her of agency, other than the agency to kill indiscriminately, I suppose. Abortion is about the most un-Christian act that human mind can conceive, I think.
  14. dynogator
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    Really, Michi? What elevates abortion above war, rape, child abuse, serial killers, school shootings, and the entire catalog of suffering humans visit on one another?
  15. mdgator05
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    What law would she break in specific? Not claiming it would be smart, but I am unaware of any law that would be broken. Are you aware of any such law?
  16. JerseyGator01
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    Abortion is violence. No other way to spin it.
  17. mdgator05
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    You do realize that Gosnell was also convicted of illegal late term abortions, right? So what he did to those that weren't yet born was indeed a crime, and I'm not sure you fully understand the point you are trying to make. Of course, I doubt that is a flaw in character, just a failure to understand.
  18. JerseyGator01
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    Gosnell could have easily been convicted of a lot more than he was. The jury was overwhelmed emotionally by the time they were asked to deliberate. Gosnell, if the state of PA had a clue, could have easily been charged with more murders than any serial killer in US history. The abortion exception strikes again. Gotta love our pro-abortion government.
  19. wcj786
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    So, what you're saying is that if your parents had decided that their lifestyle was more important to them than your life, they should have had you aborted. That is your summation on abortion.

    I understand that this situation has different issues than the above, but it boils down to the fact that you think a woman should be able to have an unborn baby killed because her lifestyle means more to her that the baby's life.

    This is what is so abhorrent about the pro-choice movement. They have no regard for the unborn, because a person's lifestyle means more to them than another's life does. If you were truly pro-choice, you would agree that choice comes before the sex, not after. Once the sex has occurred and teh baby is conceived, then the consequences have to be lived with.

    If you are Christian and are pro-choice, then you are not only sinning, but also enabling other into sin with your beliefs. The Bible clearly states that children are a blessing from God. It does not say that there will be no financial hardships due to a child, but that they are a blessing. That also does not mean that they will always be respectful and/or obedient. But, they are a blessing.

    For those who are Christian, yet are also pro-choice, based on the Bible, you believe and also encourage murder. Murder is defined as the deliberate killing of another and, base on the Bible, that is what abortion truly is.
  20. wcj786
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    Your strawman argument is so assinine, it shouldn't even receive a response. But, I will give it one anyway. Government is NOT the end-all, be-all of the world. It should have NO place in providing contraception. It should have no place in mandating health insurance. It should have no place in social engineering. It should have no place in wealth redistribution.

    The Constitution requires the government to provide for the armed services, post office and interstate commerce. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the federal government to steal money from me in the form of taxes in order to redistribute it to other citizens. There is also nothing in The Constitution that allows them to force me to violate my religious rights under the 1st Amendment, such as paying for contraception or abortions for other citizens.

    Get off your imbecilic belief in government is God and quit trying to force others to adhere to your idiotic beliefs.
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