Just can't explain it...abortion

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    No, what a nominally Christian church does in that case is demonstrate a total failure to recognize what Scripture has to say about the nature of human life, or at the very least subordinating it over a faux "equality" priority that is actually just a way to, in most circumstances, just avoid the most obvious and predictable consequence of other behavior that is also pretty sinful (seeing as far and away most abortions are by unwed women for non-health, non-rape, non-incest related reasons of pure convenience).

    Again, and mostly so I don't get fed into some strawman, that which might be the least Christian thing need not be the most socially disruptive thing or the most socially visible thing. So I'd stick with what I said -- liveborn children victims of abuse at least have some agency, some hope, be it subjective or objective, of intercession by some other responsible party. The unborn child has nothing but her mother, no hope of a substitute or of rescue or mercy from any interested party. The unborn child has only a mother that will care for and protect her or that will do the other thing.
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  2. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    You said it! Personal Responsibility is blaming all your problems on Obama, something a liberal just can't understand.
  3. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    ???

    I blame obama for creating the next huge redistribution program that screws the younger generations again while continuing to spend (more than anyone in history)...
  4. wcj786
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    wcj786 VIP Member

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    If you truly do not feel that almost all abortions are to avoid having to accept the consequences of a person's actions and the change it means in one's lifestyle, then I feel you are extremely naive. But, you have also posted that it should always be a womans' choice, which is nothing more than my argument again, just in different words.

    A woman has a choice to keep her pants on or take them off, in almost every case that currently ends in abortion. That is where the CHOICE should end. If she makes the wrong choice, she should have to live with the consequences.

    Don't get me wrong, the guy should also have to live with it and should be made to pay for ALL pregnancy related issues during the pregnancy (and after, if she decides to keep the child). If the woman decides to put the child up for adoption, the man should have the automatic first right to raise the child, if he has taken care of all the pregnany-related issues during the nine months of pregnancy. I wholehardedly endorse forcing the male to live with the consequences of his actions, too.
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  5. wcj786
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    wcj786 VIP Member

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    Below is your original post that I responded to. Please show me where I am in error talking about lifestyle when you specifically state that the parents should have the right to kill their unborn child if he/she has defects because it could have adverse affects on their monetary and/or emotional wellbeing, that is just another word for lifestyle, by my, and most other peoples', definition.
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  6. wcj786
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    wcj786 VIP Member

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    Here is another example of a liberal. Can't argue the facts, so he has to try and state some inane and misleading lie to cover his beliefs.
  7. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    In Africa there is a village that has a beauty contest every year. The winner is sacrificed to the white crocodile god. When we examine abortion and human sacrifice they both have the same motive behind them. Human life is sacrificed for the future prosperity of the people.

    IMO it doesn't matter if it is a witch doctor in Africa who is wearing rags with bones dangling from his neck or if it is a university graduate in a white coat using some sophisticated medical procedure...human sacrifice for future prosperity is savagery. It really is that simple.
  8. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Plank. The pro-aborts that dominate the media and government are very religious people.
  9. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    If this is true please provide a link or 'fess up that it is a contrived story attempting to make a point. Otherwise it gives Jersey an excuse to attempt to say abortion is some sort of "religion."

    Warped.
  10. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Feminists are the most religious people I have ever met. They certainly don't base this belief on the scientific method, unless you can prove that the fetus is a blob of tissue (among other duties).
  11. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    I can't remember exactly where I saw it Lacuna, but I think it was a claim made by Peter Hammond in the Abortion Matrix DVD. I think you'd find it fascinating because it makes an attempt to link human sacrifice to pagan religions of the past and claims that abortion is the present manifestation of those past realities that existed in the pagan world. It also documents connections between the abortion industry in Florida with witches covens throughout the state.

    FWIW the village Peter Hammond spoke of is towards the northern border of South Africa. He gave a specific name of the village, but I can't remember the name. I think it starts with a D.

    As for abortion being a religion, I am curious what you think about "The Sacrament of Abortion" by Ginette Paris. In the book Paris makes the claim that killing a fetus is a murder and advocates abortion as a sacrifice to Artemis.

    I am also curious what you think about the first 6 minutes of this video. When people call something a sacrament or say something is sacred that pretty much means it is religious to them does it not?

    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  12. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    I found the clip. It starts at 2:20.

  13. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Plank, thanks for the videos. At the very least, they were disturbing. The information provided in the videos does make clear why the term "religion" has been linked to abortion providers and advocates, but the word - and practice of - religion is a term that expresses and describes mankind's desire, rituals, and practices to establish a link, or bond, with God. The ancient rites and devotions dedicated to Astarte, Molech, Baal, et al, may have been considered religious practices by their devotees in ancient times, though in my mind were only imitative idolatry, not deserving of the descriptor "religion." But, that's just me.

    I found and read online an old interview with Patricia Baird Windle that was written about 20 years ago when she retired from running her abortion clinic. She was the one who termed abortion a "sacrament" in the video. That she's warped is also the very least that can be said of her. She may have thought she needed some sort of blanket approval for what she did and believed the ancient devotions to Astarte would suffice. In the interview she said she attended Tulane and worked on Dwight Eisenhower's campaign. One can only wonder if she might have been influenced by practitioners of voodoo in New Orleans at that time.

    Something Windle said in the interview indicates a deceitful nature. Probably helpful in her business.

    http://www.forerunner.com/fyi/news/ft082999.htm
  14. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    But not for pre-born women, apparently.
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  15. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    I think liberal churches became pro-abortion because they were desperate for membership. Their numbers have been declining drastically for decades since.
  16. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Agree jersey..

    Heard R.C. Sproul on the radio once say that instead of Christians protesting outside abortion clinics they should be protesting outside the liberal churches.
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  17. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    Lacuna, here is another clip from the DVD that is closely related to the other two videos that I posted. It gives several more instances of women who seem to associate abortion with some deep spiritual meaning that is connected to goddess worship.

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  18. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    When you judge people by the most extreme, your judgement is going to be skewed. You wouldn't want all Christians to be judged by Westboro members, would you? I have a good friend who identifies as Wiccan. Happily married, mother of 3. Recently spent some time with them and other Wiccan friends over the holiday season, all married and with at least 1 child.

    Sure there is a fringe element, but what religious group doesn't have them? I posit my group of friends is much more representative of the whole rather than what was sensationalized in your video.

    I would also say all the couples are pro-choice, even if they all chose to have children. But all would agree they would never force someone to carry to term against her will, even if each one considered his/her own child(ren) to be blessings.
  19. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    And I think liberal churches became pro-choice because not every religious person is a right-winger. Why is it so hard for some of you to realize not everybody thinks like you?
  20. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    A church that becomes liberal or conservative has its priorities in the wrong spot.

    That said killing innocent life is wrong and a church endorsing that needs to look deep inside at what their true convictions are...

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