Josh Evans says team wasn't into playing at the Sugar Bowl.

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by geauxgator1, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. gatorlaw71
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    gatorlaw71 Well-Known Member

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    Actually you do like excuses. Your "facts" are just another excuse.

    Bill Parcels would say: You are what your record says you are. Our record against Louisville head to head says we weren't good enough to beat them. Louisville proved on the field that they were better than us. That's the fact.
  2. sleeze
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    sleeze Well-Known Member

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    Any giving Saturday.

    the guys that are supposed to win lose sometimes.

    Crazy huh?
  3. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    Not any given Saturday back in the 50's. Back then men ate steel and chit bullets. They walked to school up hill both ways with shoes they created out of wood, carved with their own finger nails. Lets not even mention that before they went to bed every night they had to cut down a tree for fire wood, with a butter knife.
  4. nawlinsgator
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    nawlinsgator Well-Known Member

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    Former players have said the same thing about playing bowl games that were "letdown" matchups. No Evans is saying the same thing.
    It happens, folks.
  5. sleeze
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    sleeze Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah...those ole school guys are tough indeed...they never gave up, wussed out, or not show up for a game...never....hehe
  6. mac4lyfe
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    mac4lyfe Well-Known Member

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    Huh? The Players were jacked up to play in that game. We were probably over confident, bordering on cocky. West Virginia rolled up on us on the ground, had a bunch of long drives and basically dominated us with their defense.

    There was NO excuses. WVU was the better team. If you go back and see their season, they were one of the best teams in CFB. They lost 2 games very close. We were fairly average that year but we weren't quitters nor did we ever say we didn't care. Pell burned the tape as an example so that we would be seething about that embarrassment. He was a great motivator.

    How can you compare that game to players this year saying they didn't want to play in the Sugar Bowl?? Pell's teams always wanted to play.

  7. mac4lyfe
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    mac4lyfe Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Maybe Champ should burn the Sugar Bowl tape as well. At least burn those jerseys. Or maybe burn the next player that does the funky chicken, prancing and dancing, disrespecting themselves and their opponent. Pitiful.
  8. Distant Gator
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    Distant Gator Well-Known Member

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    You didn't understand what I was saying obviously. I said nothing about excuses.
    And per your quote from Parcells we SHOULD have won. After all our record was better than UL's. (And his quote more applies to the NFL where the schedules are more comparable. College schedules are not.)

    So logic and your Parcell quote says we should have won- we did not. For me as a thinking person the question is why. Why did the team with the better resume not win?

    Were the teams we beat not as good as we thought?
    Were we lucky to beat them and our luck ran out?
    Were the teams UL beat better than we thought?
    Or many other reasons.

    In my opinion, the difference was effort. I could be wrong, but that makes sense to me. We showed incredible effort vs FSU and LSU- and I didn't see that vs UL. I saw an undisciplined team (us) vs a disciplined focused team (UL.) Props to them- and shame on us and our coaching staff.

    And the next step is to figure out why we came in undisciplined and unfocused, if indeed that was the problem. Hopefully Boom and the players will fix that. If our problem is that we were less talented than Louisville, that is a completely different problem.

    But if we had less talent, then how did we beat TAMU, LSU, FSU, USCe then? Could Louisville had beaten that group too? If so, then why did they lose to 5-7 UConn.

    I guess it's my nature to ask questions. I'm a coach (not football) and so it's my nature to diagnose and fix problems. The way to do that is to accurately assess what the real issue is (lack of talent, mental preparation) and then attack it.

    So I disagree I'm looking for an excuse. An excuse to me is something that is not fixable and not repeatable.
  9. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Who cares whether in some alternate universe or by some stats we were "better" than they were? They were better than we were on the only day it mattered.
  10. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    players didn't show up, poor coaching preparation and questionable in game coaching = bowl disaster. No excuses.
  11. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    It's absurd to say Louisville was a better team than UF last season given the overall season results for each team.

    It's like saying Tennessee's basketball team was better than a UF national championship team because they beat us head-to-head. (But, yes some posters acted like UT was better just because they beat us head-to-head.)



    And, this "phenomenon" is not generational. We complained about lackluster performances against uninspired UF performances in bowl games (and sometimes even the regular season!) going back to 60's and 70's. (That's why we were so upset to see the match-up with Louisville BEFORE the bowl game.) I wasn't around for the first half of the last century, but I'm confident it happened then too. Human nature is pretty typical and hard to change.
  12. DieAGator
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    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    I just read the title, there's no excuse really. Would rather hear "we should have shown up to play like Louisville". You still have to prove you can beat whoever they put in front of you.
  13. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    OK. I accept that as a premise. But let me ask you and the others this. Being that:

    Since 1960, Florida won the following bowl games:

    Year-------Florida Record------Opponent---------Opp W/L-----Outcome

    1960...............8-2-0.................Baylor................8-2-0........13-12
    1962...............6-4-0.................Penn State..........9-1-0........17-7
    1966...............8-2-0.................Georgia Tech.......9-1-0........27-12
    1969...............8-1-1.................Tennessee..........9-1-0........14-13
    1980...............7-4-0.................Maryland............8-3-0........35-20
    1983...............8-2-1.................Iowa..................9-2-0........14-6
    1988...............6-5-0.................Illinois................6-4-1........14-10
    1992...............8-4-0.................NC State.............9-2-0........27-10
    1993.............10-2-0.................West Virginia......11-0-0........41-7
    1996.............11-1-0.................Florida State.......11-0-0........52-20
    1997...............9-2-0................Penn State............9-2-0........21-6
    1998...............9-2-0................Syracuse..............8-3-0........31-10
    2001...............9-2-0................Maryland............10-1-0........56-23
    2005...............8-3-0................Iowa....................7-4-0........31-24
    2006.............12-1-0................Ohio State...........12-0-0........41-14
    2008.............12-1-0................Oklahoma............12-2-0........24-14
    2009.............12-1-0................Cincinnati.............12-0-0.......51-24
    2010...............7-5-0................Penn State.............7-5-0.......37-24
    2011...............6-6-0................Ohio State.............6-6-0.......24-17

    In these 19 bowl wins, Florida had a worse record than their opponent 12 times. In 19 bowl games, Florida won by 10 or fewer points 8 times.

    In ANY of these wins, was there EVER a game where the opponent who lost to Florida lost because they really didn't want to play Florida, thinking the game was beneath them? There are examples throughout the list.

    * West Virginia fans believed they should have been playing a better opponent for a better chance for the MNC in 1994.

    * Florida State fans believed that because they already beat Florida, they shouldn't have to play them again;

    * In 2006, Ohio State fans believed that it was an insult to have to play Florida, and preferred to play a more historic power like Michigan or USC than a Florida team that seemed to be struggling nearly every game.

    * In 2009, Cincinnati just lost their head coach, who was also their OC and playcaller. How would Florida have done in, say, any great year during Spurrier's run at Florida, if Spurrier would have left prior to the bowl game against a great team? Who would run the offense and call the plays?

    Florida played teams with better statistical records 12 times in their 19 years. Could any of them have lost because they thought playing Florida was beneath them?

    I can accept the idea that Florida was less than completely prepared to play Louisville, but can anyone here accept the notion that many of Florida's wins may have come not because they were the superior team, but rather, because the other team was not up for them? In the last 50 years?

    if the good folks here can acknowledge that, then I think it is indeed reciprocal. It is also the same for other Florida losses. was every loss because the Gators didn't care (minus the Fiasco Bowl, of course)?
  14. MaceoP
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    MaceoP Well-Known Member

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    The coach sets the tone. If it's true that Coach Boom used the practices to prepare the young guys for next season, then it is highly possible that the importance of this game was not stressed and imparted to the upper class-men. I believe that our coaching staff got caught flat-footed, and they didn't go all out to do everything possible to win.
    An example of what I'm saying is the fact that all year we won our games by an overpowering run game. The Louisville game our coaching staff was a little over confident, and they believed they could get away from our MO all year and open up the passing game. The 1st play of the game should have shown us we were in for a dog-fight, with Driskel throwing the pick six.
    I believe if we stayed with our strengths that we played with throughout the year, and the coaching staff was all in to get the victory, in all probability, the outcome would have been different.
  15. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    I can certainly accept the notion that we could have won bowl games primarily because the other team was disinterested or "didn't come to play." But, on that list it looks like the best candidates for that were Penn State in '62 and maybe Ga Tech in '64 as they had very good records and were playing a team with a worse record and "the tradition of Wake Forest" (as some used to joke).

    From your list, Ohio State and FSU were still playing for the national championship, so they should have had plenty of incentive.

    Didn't W. Virginia still have a shot at the national championship also? If not, that may explain their lackluster performance against us. Either way, I'll grant that they didn't seem to show up for that game.

    Cincy may have "checked out" also, but that was a great Gator team they were playing and Tebow was "all in" in that game.

    I don't really think it's incumbent upon Louisville's fans, players or coaches to analyze or dwell on whether the Gators came to play in the Sugar Bowl. They should just be happy with their performance - as I would be if the shoe were on the other foot.

    I think it should be easier for the somewhat objective* fans of a team to recognize if their team wasn't playing up to par or were simply beaten by a better team despite a good performance. I wouldn't expect the fans of the opposing team to know us well enough (or for us to know them well enough) to recognize if we were playing below par (nor should they much care).



    * - There are many fans (of all teams) who have no objectivity regarding their team and will never give the opposing team any credit. For them, it's always poor play by us that leads to a loss rather than the other team playing well. I'm not one of them; I'm often on this site defending our play in losing games in which I believe we fought valiantly but just lost to a team that played better. While I applaud Louisville for playing very well against us (particularly their QB), this was not one of those losses where I can fully defend our effort and say we played hard and well despite losing. We played kind of like I feared we'd play when the bowl match-up was announced :sick: :no:
  16. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Moderator

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    FLIP! No offense taken. It's all good. I share the same concern with respect to a playoff, and I think inevitably, there will be some diminished regular season component somewhere along the way...there has to be; especially as the playoffs continue to expand (which they will, that's what playoffs do, that's what was bound to happen with our 2-team playoff). My point was merely that the playoff game offers more incentive than the bowl game.

    I don't want to THFSG this thread, but I'll just say that there's plenty of immorality in the older generation, that's not what this is about.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  17. Distant Gator
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    Distant Gator Well-Known Member

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    I definitely think Cincinnati was not even close to their regular season strength in our bowl game. They had lost their coach, and the game was in NO.

    I'm sure there are other opposing teams who did not come to play and we took advantage. That's the nature of bowl season. (See USCw vs GT last year in the Sun Bowl.)
  18. AmbroseGator
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    Records can be deceiving. This isn't the NFL with a modest number of teams and the generally inevitable parity of conference/divisional scheduling. Based on the performance in the Orange Bowl taken in relation to both team's respective years, I'd be perfectly content with the suggestion that Louisville was better than their regular season record and we were worse than ours.

    I disagree with those who suggest failing flat against an uninspiring opponent is "no big deal," despite its ample precedence. Just because something is understandable or even expected doesn't make it laudable. Or even neutral. But now that the past is the past, all that can be taken from it is what the staff and team will do to learn from it. Hopefully it's the negative example to be avoided from here on out. Do your best always, win or lose.

    I will note, for Wormwood's sake, that on the Phil Steele thread he saw sports writer concurrence that FSU will be amongst the best teams next year as dispositive, and that a similar consensus before the Sugar Bowl was that we were the most likely Bowl Upset. And nearly everyone said the same thing--yes that we might not be as good as our record after escaping so many times during the season, but primarily that a perceived "overmatched" or "unworthy" opponent wouldn't get the team's full attention or effort.

    Who knows what would have happened in a UF-UL BCSCG for all the marbles? My speculation is that with that much on the line, the Gators would have prepared and performed very differently, and that we would have won the game. That is, we were better than Louisville, but not good enough to assume we couldn't go all out before and during the game and still win. But we'll never know. The stakes were what they were and both teams did what they did. It may be idle speculation, but this is a message board after all.
  19. SeaCay
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    SeaCay Well-Known Member

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    Not knowing how the scoring is done for the Directors Cup, but did the Sugar loss affect the outcome? IOW, did dropping 5 or 6 places in the final FB standings lose us enough points that we lost the Cup too?
  20. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say they were a "better" team in general or in some theoretical sense than we were. I said they were a better team than we were on the only day that mattered, i.e. the day we played them and lost.

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