John Boehner's Shutdown

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by GatorBen, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/opinion/john-boehners-shutdown.html

    Figured this board could use a dose, however small, of editorial reality instead of joke Breitbart articles.

    Sums up how we got here quite well, as well as why each of the Republican proposals has been little more than political gamesmanship to try to mitigate the consequences this wil have on the party.
  2. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    So...in a contentious debate if one party just gives up and concedes the debate goes away? Wow. Who knew?
  3. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    It does. Holding the country hostage is not how you repeal, or change a law you don't like, and it's not a precedent we want to set. It shouldn't be a difficult exercise for those on the right to imagine the fringe left doing something similar, but many of them seem to suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome, and just can't think logically over anything involving him.
  4. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Well no, it was a leadership failure. Not for not giving up, but for the entire way they went after this.

    Had they, from the outset, proposed a clean CR with a much lower spending level than the Democrats wanted, they would have wound up in conference and could have won fairly significant spending reductions in a compromise.

    Instead they decided to go chasing a windmill that is literally impossible for them to knock down. In doing so, they wound up in a quagmire that it has been obvious - from the very beginning - that there was literally no way for them to win on, forwent the opportunity to actually get concessions on things that matter and that they could have made progress on, and are now realizing that the only way to end this is to admit that it never had a chance from the start. That's the reason you're starting to see the image bills: "open things people are likely to see on national TV and blame us for."
  5. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    Using reconciliation on the largest and most expensive piece of legislation in the history of the US is not how you should pass laws and it's not a precedent we want to set. The Dems did so here we are. Welcome to the Brave New World.
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  6. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Mkay.

    Address the point that it was a leadership failure to his own party as well. You know, forgoing what we could have won fairly significant concessions on - since more than about 80 legislators would have supported doing it, including some from the other side even (I know!) - to instead pick a fight that the party is going to walk away from with absolutely nothing and get punished at the polls for having picked the fight in the first place.
  7. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    And what would those concessions have been? Anything short of stopping Obamacare is about as useful as belly button lint.
  8. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Likely could have walked away from the CR with fairly significant spending cuts, possibly even tax concessions. It was leadership's initial strategy until the Tea Party pushed this idea on them.

    But I'm not sure you fully understand this. Stopping Obamacare was NEVER actually a possibility. In fact the initial GOP strategy even once that got pushed on them was to pass a defund CR, let the Senate strip it and send it back, then pass that. They forewent things they actually could have won significant concessions on to get into a fight that they already knew conclusively before they ever started they couldn't win a damn thing on. That's not leadership.
  9. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    You don't get concessions to a passed law by holding the economy hostage. That's not the way the system is supposed to work, and if the fringe left ever tries to do the same thing you'll wish we never went down this road.
  10. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    How can you negotiate with someone that won't negotiate with you unless your name is Hassan?
  11. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Read the editorial. The Senate asked for a conference on a budget bill for six months. I can guarantee you that, had they accepted, the GOP wouldn't have walked out of that conference with absolutely nothing to show for it. On the other hand they will walk away from this empty handed. That's a leadership failure.
  12. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    It's miniscule in comparison to Obama and his party passing the ACA. True leaders don't set their country on a crash course with failure. True, Boehner just fell on his sword and I commend him for doing it.
  13. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately he's trying to get the whole country to fall on the sword with him.
  14. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    Typical lib bullchit
    This is all on Reid and your beloved prezBO
  15. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, no. This shutdown will be a blip in American history--forgotten probably before it even ends. The ACA is a noose around this country's neck that will either snap its neck or slowly suffocate it.
  16. g8trjax
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    g8trjax Well-Known Member

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    By ferreting out non-essential govt personnel?
  17. g8trjax
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    g8trjax Well-Known Member

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    How? By ferreting out non-essential govt workers?
  18. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    If they are non-essential why am I paying them as well as the rest of us. Why pay non-essential employees.
  19. DeanMeadGator
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    DeanMeadGator '63 Gator VIP Member

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    This is a scathing assessement of Obama's lack of leadership, as articulated in an editorial in the iconic Wall Street Journal today:

    Mr. Obama has rejected conciliation and compromise with Republicans. Instead, he attacks them in sharp, partisan language in speech after speech. His approach—dealing with a deadlock by not dealing with it—is unprecedented. He has gone where no president has gone before."
  20. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Oh, well if Rupert Murdoch says so...

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