It took Saban 5 years to turn Michigan State around...

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by Gator_n_Austin, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. Gator_n_Austin
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    Gator_n_Austin Member

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  2. Pieisyummy
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    This isn't Michigan St who hasn't won since the 60s,, he's done what you'd expect from a good coach in his first years at the much more comparable LSU and Bama. Next; never understood this argument.
  3. Gator_n_Austin
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    Gator_n_Austin Member

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    I was comparing M. State because it was his first coaching job at a Big School, which makes it comparable to Muschamp, who is learning on the job. And I understand this is not Michigan St, because the fans there seem to be a bit more realistic and not so arrogant.

    at LSU his best year was his 4th year

    at Bama he went 7-6 his first year, but Shula left Saban way more offensive talent than Meyer left Muschamp and he had a horrible OC in M. Applewhite, who he got rid of after 1 season.

    If you don't understand the argument then you probably have unrealistic expectations, because its pretty obvious that Muschamp hasnt had enough time to fix all the issues that were here when he got here. Next year he wins 8-9 games, the year after that 10-11. He needs to fire Pease, which became obvious after the Missouri game.

    Muschamp will be a great HC, but only if we give him time. If we get rid of him now, no coach in the country would come to Florida.
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  4. SeaCay
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    SeaCay Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to disagree, unless I know the answer to one question: How much influence/control does he exert over play calling during the game?
  5. Gator_n_Austin
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    Gator_n_Austin Member

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  6. SeaCay
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    SeaCay Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the first line?

    No way Pease is going to roll his boss under the bus like that, he'd never find a job again doing so.

    We still do not know 100% either way. Muschamp may, in fact, leave Pease to his own devices. If so, Pease is a terrible coach and needs the boot now. If that is the case, what does that say about Muschamp not reacting to the situation mid-season? Other teams/head coaches seem to be able to make tough choices at less than opportune times. Perhaps Muschamp hasn't progressed to this point of coaching competency yet, much less the competency level to select and hire a good OC to begin with.
  7. GboroGator
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    GboroGator Well-Known Member

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    Another moving of the goalposts thread for this guy. When will it stop?
  8. Gator_n_Austin
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    Gator_n_Austin Member

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    There is no evidence that Muschamp has been handcuffing his Offense at all, but there is plenty of evidence to support that Pease is not a good OC.
  9. Gator_n_Austin
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    Gator_n_Austin Member

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    ?! was that aimed at me?
  10. SeaBud
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    SeaBud Active Member

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    - CWM coached with Saban. So did Jimbo and lots of other guys. Does this mean that all these guys will become Saban if just "given time"? Is your thesis based on Saban pixie dust or what causes this predictive success? Have other Saban assistants dominated?

    - For every Saban, there are plenty of other coaches who spice 1 good year among mediocrity and who we do not want as coaches (Chizik, Richt).

    - Saban won 9 games in year 5 at MSU and then left. Is one 9-2 year and 4 .500 years a turn around? Think MSU fans pine for the "glorious" Saban years and the championships (none) he won there? Saban today is in his 60s with over a decade of head coach experience. You are drafting off this legacy to build a case of support for CWM.

    There is no reason to assume that CWM will follow in the footsteps of Saban any more than any other coach in his 40s. There is no reason to assume that even if he does it, it won't be after a decade of experience at multiple stops, like Saban.

    You can look at CWM and see a great coach in the making and I will respectfully say "you may be right." We could then discuss what good/bad we see on the field and in program growth to predict his future. However, pointing at an entirely different individual, whose tenure at the program you identify is not highly impressive, as the reason to predict CWM's future is not persuasive.

    Did Mike Shula succeed because of Don Shula? Touching greatness (in Saban's case at MSU it was "pre"greatness) does not make one great.
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  11. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Michigan State was 5-7 the year before Saban arrived.

    We were 8-5 with like 4 consecutive top 15 recruiting classes.
  12. jcorb3233
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    jcorb3233 Member

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    The Florida to Michigan State comparison isn't very accurate, when you consider the following:

    Record the previous 4 years before the coach got there:
    Saban @ MSU: 19-26 (14-31 if you count the forfeited season as all losses)
    Muschamp @ UF: 43-11 (with 1 SEC Championship, 1 NC, and 1 Heisman)

    Saban at least had 1 year of success as a Head Coach before going to Michigan State.

    After Saban left (with Saban's players), Michigan State went 16-19 over the next 3 years (I wouldn't call one 9-2 season "turning them around").

    For the 20 year stretch before Saban got there, Michigan State was not the winningest program in the country. Florida was before Muschamp got here.

    Also to consider: has Saban actually produced any truly great coaches in his coaching tree? I think Jimbo Fisher has to be the closest thing to "great" that has come from Saban's teaching. Look at some of the names on the list: Bobby Williams, Pat Shurmur, Mark Dantonio, Derek Dooley, Jason Garrett, Scott Linehan, Mike Mularkey, and Jim McElwain. Not a great list.
  13. Bushmaster
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    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

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    Point is, even the great Satan himself didn't win overwhelmingly in his first gig. Didn't mean he couldn't coach. You learn a lot more while doing the job rather than watching. WM will get better. Whether its here or someone else is the argument.
  14. Gator_n_Austin
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    Ding-Ding!!
  15. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone understands the premise, but the situations are different enough that this evidence doesn't necessarily support it.
  16. phideltgator
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    phideltgator Active Member

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    Mix 10 parts Muschamp to 1 part Saban for a balanced formula.
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  17. Gator_n_Austin
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    Most of the offensive recruits from those classes didn't actually pan out. Transfers, and Busts, today our Srs and Jrs are from those classes which Muschamp didn't recruit. And in Meyers last 2 seasons Top Offensive recruits are quoted as saying how boring our offense was under Addazio and it hurt recruiting , which is why we have no playmakers on O right now.
  18. Gator_n_Austin
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    Not really. Even the best coach in college football needs time to get his players in place, is the point i was trying to make. 3 years isnt enough time
  19. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree that this is usually true, however, a couple of points:

    1. The Michigan State comparison is still really not analogous

    2. Muschamp did win 11 games last year, which sort of hurts the argument that it takes more than 3 years to start winning
  20. GatorRade
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    It sure did take him a few years at Michigan State, but what happened after that? He went to LSU. Do you want to risk sending Muschamp to LSU? I mean the Geneva Convention explicitly prohibits use of biological weapons. It is bad enough that Foley is still using Muschamp on his own people.

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