Israel Builds Sinai Border Fence; Illegal Crossings Drop 99.9%

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mocgator, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I am just saying that you are essentially advocating government to increase prices of agriculture, providing an incentive for people to start their own farms.
  2. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    If only we knew how to build a fence when a Republican who loved America was in office. It's a shame that fence building technology wasn't around until Obama was President. Oh well, I'm sure when we get another Republican in office that fence will go right up...now that we know what they are and how to build them.
  3. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    First we'll have to make sure that the fence doesn't contribute to climate change before it goes up. Then we'll have to ensure it doesn't affect the seasonal travel plans of various species of turtles like my town is doing before expanding a road a block away from me.
  4. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    This! ...20 to 30 million times.
  5. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Self sufficient like the guy who goes hunting? Just don't think about the roads that got him to his hunting spot, the car he drove to get there, the Wal Mart camo he wore, the gun he shot, or the ammo he used.
  6. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Well then, we'll also have to make sure that there are no two male bricks are adjacent, lest we risk gay marriage of the bricks. Then we'll have to ensure that it doesn't get in between Arizona police and the identification cards of anyone darker than Chevy Chase from The Three Amigos, which includes Chevy Chase from National Lampoon's Vacation. Finally, it is imperative that the wall doesn't block patients from their doctors, like Obamacare does...unless of course those doctors are from Planned Parenthood, in which case we obviously should have finished it decades ago.
  7. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    There is a movie that's out now on this. They get 24 hours to do whatever they want and they can't be charged.
  8. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    i think the disjoint is more between employers and citizens expectations. there seems to be a stigma against manual labor, construction, farm, landscape, janitorial, when in fact a job is a good and honorable thing, why people deem it to be more honorable to be on welfare than to work is something i have a very hard time understanding.

    currently we have millions of able bodied potential workers on public assistance of some type. Many need help, but lets put people who can to work, even if they won't be able to fully fund their requirements at least it will partially pay for their needs.

    personally i would cut grass before i wouldn't work at all, just feel better being productive if not entirely self sufficient
  9. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    Because they don't know any better and in today's politically correct culture you can't tell them what they are doing might actually be bad.

    It is all part of the US death spiral.
  10. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    To some extent, you're right. There are people who think some jobs are beneath them and don't even try for them. And there are others that are quite happy to do that work, but want more pay to do the same job than immigrants want, so employers go for the lower cost option even if that labor is illegal.

    But the farm workers in particular are doing work that that very very few Americans are capable of doing, even if they wanted to. And fewer still would do it for the wages paid.

    I think we should have a very, very liberal visa policy for jobs like farm work, where Americans are simply not capable of doing the work.

    But then fairly tight visa policies in other areas including most trades where Americans can do the work... and enforce our immigration laws, on both illegal immigrants and employers who hire them.
  11. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I think Americans would do those jobs for a living wage and decent benefits. That's what I would prefer in an ideal world. But that isnt going to happen for a variety of reasons. A guest worker program isnt the perfect solution, but its the most realistic option, certainly more so than expecting Americans to do those jobs for low pay or much higher pay while totally cutting off the flow of illegal labor.
  12. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    1. Why are americans unable to do those jobs? Unwilling...yes. unable? No.
    2. A living wage? Please explain. Do we measure by middle class standards? Do farm workers need enough to live in a nice neighborhood in plant city? Or do they need enough to male ends meet living in a small two bedroom apartment in dover? We have many ameri ans who would rather live in a semi ghetto apartment omplex doing nothing than go out and work? And why shouldn't they. We pay them enough to support that lifestyle with them doing nothing in return.
  13. 108
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    they come here because the low under-the-table wages they get paid here (mostly by those who vote for R's) are better then what they make in Mexico and other South American countries
  14. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Unwilling usually means "not paying enough." Turning the US into Mexico would solve that problem, I guess. But that would mean making things pretty damn terrible.
  15. PIMking
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    PIMking New Member

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    Why is mexico's president not doing anything and actually encouraging their poor to go up north? why worry about the poor in your country when you can pawn them off on another
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  16. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really privy to much down there. Has he tried to encourage his people to sneak into the US?
  17. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Americans are not tough enough / physically capable of doing the work that migrant farm workers do. Most that think they could do it wouldn't last more than a couple of hours.
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  18. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    so you want to continue full rides, i propose that we get americans back to work and then if needed supplement the working rather than those sitting home getting assistance. it seems we would be better off having a able person work for 7.5x40x48 = 14,400 dollars per year and then supplementing them with whatever is necessary so they can live a reasonably comfortable life, then once they realize that working feels good they can try to advance up the pay scale to 10/15/20/30 dollars an hour as their skill set increases. seems like they would feel better and it would decompress the entitlement system to allow the money to go to the truly needy and those truly needy by some emergency circumstance.

    how much is necessary to live reasonably comfortably, in school i lived on a 30 hr a week part time job and though i wasn't rich i certainly didn't feel put out. so it seems that you can work even a minimum wage job and thrive if you have a goal and can hope to advance.
  19. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    Good fences make good neighbors.

    But even more important than the above is that respect of a neighbor is such that the boundary/fence is not abused by either neighbor.

    Berlin wall was one hell of a fence. But one side of the fence was a country so abusive to its people that the fence couldn't hold them in. and the neighbor was willing to receive people who wanted to get the hell out of East Germany.

    Mexican border is a fence with gaping holes in it. Thing is, job ops are so appealing to those south of the border that they are willing to risk life and limb to get across.

    some solutions
    ----make the fence more impenetrable
    ----lessen the appeal of the U.S. for those south of the border. In other words crack down on those in the U.S. who hire illegals

    I would like to see the fed govt crack done hard on businesses that hire illegals.
    I would also like to see the U.S. construct a canal from Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean. That would be broad and deep enough to really facilitate commerce AND to make it extremely hard to cross the border illegally. Such a project would take years, $$$$$$, etc....but the project would also dramatically help create jobs, strengthen border security, and really help commerce transport goods from coast to coast. If china could put up the massive Great Wall of China hundreds of years ago....we should have the technology, means, gumption to do a canal.
  20. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Agree with cracking down harder on businesses that hire illegals... after adjusting visa programs to support appropriate numbers of workers for target industries that really need them - primarily agriculture.

    The canal is an interesting idea, but way too difficult and expensive due to elevations involved as well as distance, and you'd still need a big fence along with it.

    In sum, we need the following:
    1. Enlarged visa program for farm workers
    2. Crack down on businesses hiring illegals
    3. Increased barriers in places where that makes sense - not sure it's really needed the whole length of the border as there is some brutal terrain to get through in some areas. The numbers getting through there would be really low and expense of a fence to stop them would be pretty high.

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