Israel behaving badly again

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Sohogator, May 7, 2014.

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  1. vertigo0923

    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    jordan isn't worthy of our camaraderie?
  2. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    It was more meant to mock his frequent posts in other threads that implicitly or explicitly state that conservatives have a "war on women/gays/atheists" and are obviously all collectively racist for disagreeing with a black President.

    But I'd say it's pretty discriminatory to claim Israel murders Palestinians without a mention to the hundreds of Israelis that have been killed by Arab terrorists over the years. I'm not denying Israel has killed innocent civilians in their wars against the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah; but I'm also not discounting the fact that's part and parcel of their strategy against Israel: fight them in civilian areas, daring them to fight back and hiding behind women and children, deliberately putting them at risk.
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  3. dynogator

    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    The OP is one-sided, just like virtually every thread and post on Too Hot.
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  4. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Newsflash: everyone spies on everyone. The Brits have spied on us--heck, even the Canadians have tried to get their hands on American defense technology secrets. The fact they do it doesn't surprise me. If you were a country surrounded by enemies and have few friends in the world, spying on everyone is necessary for survival.
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  5. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    Israel has deployed cluster bombs and white phosphorous against civilian Palestinians populations. These are war crimes. While i do not defend terrorist attacks either by Palestinians or Israelis the fact of the matter is that deaths of Israeli children in the last 20 years number around 100. More than 15k Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis in that same time.

    But set that aside for those of you who think Israeli lives are > Palestinian lives. What about their conduct wrt to us?
  6. dynogator

    dynogator Well-Known Member

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    This is true. Anyone not actively trying to bomb us, or hit us with bio-weapons must be counted as a "friend." Maybe "frinemy."
  7. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    Did the Brits send our most sensitive underwater espionage secrets to our mortal enemy? Did they murder 17 of our sailors?
  8. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    We do get a lot of intelligence from them--and I mean a lot. They've actively thwarted many would-be attacks for the years on the US and Europe with timely intelligence sharing and/or operations against foreign terrorist cells.

    I have little doubts it's altruism and I think everyone understands it's a quid pro quo for what do for them, but there's no telling how many lives they've saved over the years.

    Unfortunately for them, intelligence operations are meant to be somewhat secretive and it's rare they get much credit. Israel's specialty is human intelligence--intel developed from human sources--due to their numerous networks in the Arab world. The US has always focused our intel on communication intercepts and high-tech electronic intelligence...which isn't always as useful as "hands on the ground" sources.
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  9. LittleBlueLW

    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    So again soho, its your opinion that god should strike israel from the earth?

    Why not us then? Weve killed many many more than they have.
  10. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, yes to both.

    You do realize that the US has fought two wars *against* the British, right? And they stole our maritime secrets in both wars (we had some of the best frigates in the world at the time through innovations we made).

    The jury's out on the Liberty incident, but when you're in a war, accidents happen. The US has bombed British troops several times in the last 10 years in friendly fire accidents. It's regrettable, but accidental. I don't expect you to know the difference.
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  11. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    No I'm not religious. Additionally am not aware of any Israelis we have murdered via state action.

    I think we need to turn our back on them at the least but also think sanctions are in order.
  12. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    The Liberty was over 40 years ago. Cover-up? False flag? Simple mistake? Who knows. How much longer are you going to hold a grudge, Soho?

    And yes, the Israelis have killed Palestinian children, but what is Israel supposed to do when the Palestinians purposely put their weapons next to schools and refuse to move the children when Israel announces plans to attack? Simply looking at one side in the Israel/Arab conflict is to only get a very biased picture. My Mom always said two wrongs don't make a right. And in this case, for every Israeli wrong, there has been at least one Palestinian wrong of equal or greater weight. Or do you condone Palestinians indiscriminately lobbing rockets into Israel with no reprisal?

    The US involvement in the area is messy, to say the least. We need a stake in the area as an excuse to protect our oil interests. We could back the Arab states, but then that would leave Israel on it's own. And one of two things would happen. One, the Israelis would attack the Arab states, which would make it difficult to get the oil. Or two, the Palestinians would wipe Israel off the map, which would cause a big uproar in the Jewish and religious community in the US, which has a lot of money. Not to mention the PR nightmare it would cause. Trading oil for the life of Jews, who have been persecuted for thousands of years, would get a lot of play. And again, it would make getting oil more difficult.

    Until we become energy dependent, we'll have reason to pick a side in the debate. We've chosen Israel and have hoped for years that the Palestinians will come to their senses and eventually choose peace. But to paraphrase Golda Meir, the Palestinians have never failed to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace. Switch sides now and nobody wins. Our best bet in the long term is find energy dependence and then let the region sort itself out.
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  13. texigator

    texigator Well-Known Member

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    And your religious beliefs-atheism-blind you to the Truth and lead you to hate all things Christian or Jewish or American.
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  14. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    Wait did they steal our secrets and sell them to our mortal enemy while posing as an ally cause I don't remember that. And no the jury is not out on the liberty you Israeli apologist
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  15. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    It's weird - fundamentalist Christians claim to be patriotic but they are demonstrably not.

    Troubling.
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  16. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    Your post is the silliest I've ever read Palestinians will wipe Israel of the map? Those bloodthirsty ghouls have 200+ nukes. Let them fend for themselves. I am tired of being stabbed in the back by these louts.
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  17. LittleBlueLW

    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    Not religious but you hate Jews? Troubling.
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  18. Sohogator

    Sohogator Premium Member

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    That's slander and a personal insult you've been reported.
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  19. g8orbill

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    geez louise hoss- you come on hear and insult the hell out of every conservative on this board and then cry like a little puss when you think you have been insulted

    oh boo effin hoo
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  20. AzCatFan

    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    And those bloodthirsty ghouls have used how many nukes, despite being surrounded by enemies? Real bloodthirsty...

    Yes, it's much more likely that Israel would win the conflict, use the nukes, and destroy much of the oil. But there is always a chance the Palestinians can win. It's not like David hasn't beaten Goliath before! But then the PR Jewish lives for oil campaign would again make the oil difficult to attract. Not to mention, the backlash among the American Jewish community.

    But the point of the post was why we are involved in the region in the first place and while we'll remain in the area, backing Israel, until we reach energy independence. Pull out of the area and it could literally go nuclear. Switch sides and back the Arabs, cornering Israel even more, and again, likely to go nuclear. Or we could stay in the area, back Israel, keep a status quo, get our oil, and hope cooler heads eventually prevail.
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