Is WM getting a "do-over"?

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by gator07, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Some cheer for the temporary occupant of the HC position. The rest of us are Gator fans who always want us to win and can't stand having to settle for less when other teams are throwing the bank and a couple oil wells toward the most successful coaches.

    We had coaches before this one and will have coaches after. We want all of them to win. But asking us to wait years for it to happen, isn't in our DNA.
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  2. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I'm well aware that at this point the transfers actually help us. But thats like saying when a bank gets hosed on a foreclosed mortgage and has to sell the house their stuck with for half of what they owe on it is their best alternative. Big picture thats terrible for business. Same here.

    And I don't really care what the reasons are. The coach is in charge of building the program. When you see so many holes that is on him. So you have to ask yourself, what have we already accomplished in 3 years and what has been built up for us in those 3 years going forward:

    Looking back (Big wins? Bowl games? Rivals?) - We have won a grand total of 4 games versus ranked teams. We have a blowout Sugar Bowl loss and a Gator Bowl win to show for it. One win over FSU and UGA combined.

    Grade: D+

    Looking forward (What does the roster look like? Is the depth chart taking shape? What about the coaching staff? Have we accumulated a lot of continuity with our coordinators and our current players? Are our position coaches getting the most out of our raw talents?) - Roster doesn't hardly look any better than it did in 2010. Redshirt freshmen are expected to fill out most of the depth chart. Our D is in good hands with our coach, the players excel in our system and recruits want to play in it. However the O is the exact opposite. We will be starting from scratch once again next year. Nothing gained in 3 years. OL coach replaced. Its unclear if we have had anyone coaching QBs. They do not play like they are getting sufficient coaching. Hard to do much worse.

    Grade: D-

    It's hard to not look back and feel like we've completely wasted the last three years of Florida football. Not much accomplished and very little built up for the future. One 11 win season is as fleeting as it was nice. Its gone now. Now what do we have?
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  3. phideltdj
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    phideltdj Well-Known Member

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    Attrition may be happening at other schools like Bama but usually it is because they can't beat out all-american talent in front of them where at UF they can't play at an SEC level and coach realizes he took them as projects and they can't contribute at the level you need to win. Bama can afford to have attrition because they have quality players 2 deep at every position...not to mention some of these guys are competing to stay on the team.
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  4. UFLAW81
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    UFLAW81 Premium Member

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    I kind of like what I am seeing.
    But that is based on the assumption the transfers are "mutual decisions."
  5. fklein8724
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    fklein8724 Premium Member

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    We're the hamster in the wheel.
  6. harrishr
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    harrishr Premium Member

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    Gator07 , props to you! As a former player there a good majority of us that feel the only way this gets fixed is to replace Muschamp because with what has been happening in recruiting, player evaluation, and overall Coaching by Muschamp it appears pretty clear that he is in over his head. We understand we had more injuries than one would expect, however a good head coach will have his backups ready to play. Case in point look at the Gamecocks. How many times did Conner Shaw go down this year and missed playing time. For what it's worth I think the Gamecocks head Coach is still one helluva Coach. For him to lose Ellis Johnson as D Coordinator and still have a very competitive team is pretty darn good. Muschamp is getting a do over based on the amount of injuries we had this year or at least that is what we are led to believe. I've seen all if the excuses on this board on why he needs another year. You know the program is headed in the wrong direction when the National media has stories on our Football program and question what has gone wrong with it. It is really bad when ESPN has a news flash on our transfers as if other schools don't have them. The problem is we have a redshirt freshmen that is transferring out and been told he does not fit the new offense that our head coach wants to bring in. I would like to know the real reason he us transferring out. Is it because of poor player evaluation by the head coach during the recruiting process or is it the inability to develop the player. Folks, bottom line the head coach is responsible for all of the above, player evaluation, recruiting and player development and the last 3 years provides enough evidence that something is definitely wrong to the point where the National media writes stories on it. What worries me most is what is actually going on in the locker room because it looked like a team that had quit on their head coach during the Vanderbilt game if you looks at the sidelines. Our players showed no emotion when things started going wrong off us. One can only hope he gets it fixed, however most coaches that were in the same precarious predicament don't make it when they get a do over!
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  7. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    First two recruiting class? Oops! Hit the reset button.

    First two coordinators? Oops! Hit the reset button.

    Offensive philosophy? Oops! Hit the reset button.
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  8. southernmost
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    southernmost Member

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    Do over? No. Do or die? Yes.

    The sad part is that if our offense wasn't utterly putrid, we would have been competitive for the east. So there doesn't even need to be a lot of improvement for the team to be successful in 2014.
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  9. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen anything like what we saw twice this year (Vandy, Ga Southern). It looked like a game that didn't matter at all. I felt like I was watching a preseason NFL game. Or a spring practice or something. It never appeared like it was a game we were trying to win. There were so many players most fans have never even heard of running around on the field. We had a QB who had no business being on the field, due to his lack of preparation. They were complete no-show efforts and really exposed what a weak state our program is in.
  10. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think the problem is one of two issues: he either wants to get his hands dirty in the defense and he isn't paying enough attention in all things a HC needs to be a part of including demeanor, or he just doesn't have an instinct on what offense has to do - talent evaluation, talent development, coaching/gameday strategies - to be successful. It seems to me he is taking the "Jesse and Joes" approach to success. Raw horsepower only gets you so far.

    And to the title of the thread, no he isn't getting a do-over, he has a one-year audition with no excuses. Now the definition of success next year may be up for discussion, but as I have posted before the money people WILL be heard on this. None of that rolls in without their endorsement and that powers up the remainder of the athletic success, save for men's basketball.
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  11. SeaBud
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    SeaBud Active Member

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    I strongly disagree, and object, to this characterization. No Gator fans want him to fail because it means the Gators fail. Voicing the observation (not even an opinion now, because it is undeniable and muschamp admitted it) that he failed to achieve what is expected of him as head coach this year is NOT "wanting him to fail". What is "sad" is that the players bust their butts to win, fans pay their hard earned cash to go to games. But you think it is sad that the guy making $3M is getting criticized for people craving his success and unwilling to tolerate failure?

    As to the original question - this coming year has to tell the tale. The last two years bring some ambivalence to fans and Foley as there was success and failure. Decision is made to give him another year - ok, I personally disagree for the reason cited by the former player (the team quit on him) and because our roster appears to be getting worse not better, but ok. However, less than 9 wins and I don't care who quits, who transfers, who is injured, if we get beat in Auburn miracle style, if we owe $1M to the new OC or about anything else, he had his chance. Foley needs to have his ducks in a row to exit us as gracefully as possible from this era while we all hope that Muschamp succeeds. Discussing past success or failure and planning for the future based on either is not sad, it is mature.
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  12. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah thanks. I'm pretty sure just about every point of my argument was a fact. Those 2 recruiting classes have not panned out, nearly half of it is gone. Those 2 coordinators have not panned out, both gone. Evidently his philosophy has failed him and he is changing it. Its undeniable. I never said I hope he fails. The fact is he has failed and failed so mightily in multiple different areas (player personnel, staff, the offense) that my opinion is that he should have been fired by now.

    Makes no sense why we are "starting over" (which we are) with a coach that has proven to be a failure in so many significant areas. Why wouldn't we just start over with someone else?

    Does anyone really think we are any better off right now than we were at the end of 2010, the last time we started over? I can't believe that's even a question as low as we were that year, essentially with a coach who didn't want to be there. Any improvement since 2010 is only incremental at best. THAT is what's sad.

    End of 2010 -------------------------------------------------- End of 2013

    QB: Poor starter. Top QB incoming freshman (Driskel) --- Poor starter. Top QB incoming freshman (Grier)
    RB: Good depth (Demps, Rainey, Gilly) --- Good depth (Taylor, Brown, Showers, Lane) Plus Cook?
    WR: Not much (DT, QD, FH, OH, AD) --- Similar cast of characters. Freshmen w/~2ooyds rec. Plus Lane?
    TE: Reed, Christian, Leonard incoming ---- Nothing, incoming recruits
    OL: Not good quality or quantity --- Not good quality or quantity

    DL: Floyd, Easley, Hunter, Orr, McCray, Jay Howard etc ---- Bullard, Fowler, Orr + Redshirts (RFR)
    LB: Bostic, Jenkins ----- Morrison, Powell, Davis, 2013 class unknowns
    DB:Elam, Roberson, LP, Shaw, Saunders, Watkins --- Roberson? VH3, Riggs, Pool, Gorman + RFR

    The roster itself is a toss-up, even though after 2010 we all agreed it was in its worst shape it had been for quite some time ("broken program"). Unless we have these incredible RFR and true freshmen in the 2014 class waiting in the wings its tough to say we're in any better position now.
  13. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    So, you'all will be the first ones to say, "I told you so."

    OK, we get the negative energy and dithering.

    Now, please do something useful until the time comes when you get to tell us.
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  14. Bushmaster
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    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

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    I was invited to walk on back in the Galen Hall days. There was no way in hell I was ever going to see field (in my mind anyway) so I chose a different path in life. I wish I could get a do over, but I can't. However, if the internet had been around and I had read the vitriol that comes from some posters on this board AND I had other options (Lane, Cook, etc), I would look elsewhere and I am a diehard Gator fan. No one wants to come into play for 3-4 years in this kind of turmoil where there is constant negativity. I am beginning to hate even visiting this board because of it . Think of the impression these 17 year old kids will get. Its not pretty.
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  15. DieAGator
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    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    Yes AZ, and now and then they lose a few good ones. But looking at the losses we had on offensive side of ball I wonder if it wouldn't have been wiser to keep some of those guys around. Me thinks Coach thought recruiting Florida would be as easy as it was at Texas.

    Same with all of Muschamp's classes. Whose fault?

    Before next season and once our rivals rosters are set we could take a look at who left at our rivals. That could be interesting.

    I don't think that's true. But you have to like your coach and feel like he's in control and knows what he's doing.

    Tend to agree.

    That's why it's crucial to be able to build a lead and get your newer talent some game experience. We've never done that.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
  16. capnpen
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    capnpen Active Member

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    This is really the point I was trying to make, but you said it much better. Alabama signs 4-star and 5-star recruits at every position, and the ones who don't make it transfer out. At UF in the last four classes, too many of the kids we thought (and were told) would be playmakers when they were signed have since transferred out. The kids we jo have left are playing their hearts out, but they were either intended to be depth on the chart and not starters, or they haven't been coached up to their potential. In either case, the coaches are to blame for poor recruiting or poor coaching. Muschamp's job is primarily to coach his assistants so that they do the best job possible in implementing the system. That's why I'm, at best, mildly or guardedly hopeful for next season. He is unlikely to suddenly do in the fourth year what he hasn't done in the first three years. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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  17. fox
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    fox Well-Known Member

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    As a fan, questioning your whole existence because you lost games playing a 3rd string QB and without a lot of players due to the worst injury year we've ever had is immature.

    But yes, when a head coach has to fire his OC after a losing season it is a bad place to be. Thinking a new hire is going to fix everything is not realistic. It's going to take a lot of hard work and I like Muschamp there.
  18. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    We are much better off now than we were in 2010 but no matter what anybody says you are just going to be negative. The OL is in much better shape than it was going in 2011 (we had 6 guys and nobody coming in) the DL is in much better shape than it was into 2011. The DB potion is in much better shape then it was going into 2011. Driskel is not a poor stater

    If our roster looked like it did in 2010 going into 2011 I would be one of those posters like you and secnun right now. I would be saying get Muschamp out yesterday. The truth of the matter is we are much better up front on both sides of the ball and the defense should be one of the best in the nation next year.

    The people that are crying about the attrition are just people that are mad Muschamp isnt gone and will find any reason to cry about it. We are going to lose two people on the 2 deep due to attrition. That is it.
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  19. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    On that list he gave and I quoted a lot of those kids were Urban's. You are going to have attrition at every school have you looked at UGA LSU BAMA over the past few years? These teams have had a lot of attrition and no coaching change. So they are makimg more "mistakes" that UF is. You are not going to hit on every kid

    You do a lot of wondering , who was let go that we should have kept?
  20. ajjaxgator
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    Really? "want him to fail"? That's crazy. I don't want him to fail, I want him to succeed so the GATORS succeed. Now the question is "Can he?". Frankly I don't think he can. Prove me wrong, CWM, PLEASE.

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