Is WM getting a "do-over"?

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by gator07, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    1. Roster

    40% of our 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes are gone. That's supposed to be our upperclassmen for next season. On top of that 50% of the 2013 class redshirted and will be seeing the field for the first time. That means going into year 4 we will only have about 30 players (by my count) from those 3 classes combined that have taken meaningful snaps. Yikes! It should be double that. Our roster looks like something you would see under a first year head coach.

    2. Staff

    So Foley is going to buy him another OC/OL duo even though he has botched the hiring of the past two.
    Now we have set ourselves back yet again forcing our players to learn a new system, not to mention our top offensive recruits are somewhat stuck in limbo to know what kind of offense we are going to run. Sorta like when you are hiring a new coach.

    Three OCs in 4 years is pretty unprecedented. Not sure I've seen that one before, especially when the first 2 were failures. Just trial and error at this point I guess. Who knows we could hit the jackpot with the next big thing at OC, but anyone with any kind of success will be snatched up for a HC gig, then we'll be right back to square one again - stuck with a HC who desperately needs someone who can completely control the offensive side of the ball or else its going to be ugly.

    3. Offensive Philosophy

    The good news is that we may finally be moving away from the "first in TOP, last in everything else" offense and joining the rest of modern day college football. The bad news is that WM is basically implicitly admitting to wasting 3 years of Florida football with a failed offensive philosophy that even the most novice of football fans could have told you would have been a bad idea from the start. I'm not sure what he said to Foley that had him convinced this ill-conceived plan of his would work. You would think Foley would be grilling a first time head coach who was previously a DC about his offensive philosophy to really try to gauge his acumen on that side of the ball. Apparently not. Seems like he said "I don't know much about offense. Let's just get Charlie Weis" and that was that.

    It's amazing to me that 3 years in how much it feels like its day 1. Inexperienced, young roster still very much in a "rebuilding" phase, zero continuity on offense with the players learning a brand new system, etc. Is our program any better off now at the end of 2013 as it was at the end of 2010? Even more amazing is that this has been allowed to carry on. I'm not one of those "Fire Foley" types, but I have to admit that I'm starting to question what it is he's thinking long-term on this one. Seems like we are bending over backwards here to make this guy into a good head coach when maybe its just not there.

    So this is why the decision to keep Muschamp is so perplexing. We're experiencing all of the growing pains of hiring a new coach without the benefit of getting the shiny new coach. Many seem to think if we struggle next year, he will be gone and then we will be suffering these same growing pains yet again. That seems crazy to me. (Even though I say the sooner the better). We could have cut ties now and killed two birds with one stone since we are going through all of this churn anyhow.

    But with the state of our roster, replacing the offensive staff, and changing schemes, not to mention our schedule, who (including Foley) would expect us to win much at all next year? Would Foley really put us through all this again in one year's time? I'm not so sure. I think it will be telling with the OC hire. Big name, big money, and pulling someone away from another successful school would seem to indicate this could be a multi-year endeavor from this point. Promote from within, or hire some castoff from another sinking ship (USC's OC, Applewhite, a fired Holgerson or NFL coach, etc) and maybe those guys don't have much to lose anyhow and will come here on more uncertain terms.

    I apologize in advance to those who want to "keep it positive" or still feel it their duty to defend Muschamp for some reason. Just tossing some thoughts out there for the other side.
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  2. lagorcegator
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    lagorcegator Member

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    can not agree with you more
    we are seen the end of an era
    Fooley is on the way out also!!!
    GO GATORS
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  3. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    Gator07 "I apologize in advance to those who want to "keep it positive" or still feel it their duty to defend Muschamp for some reason. Just tossing some thoughts out there for the other side."

    I presume that is because you didn't think there was already enough negative comment about the coach who will lead the Gators next year.

    It has nothing to do with "keeping it positive; or defending Muschamp". He is the Coach; that isn't going to change and the there is no earthly reason to keep bitching about it. Or analyzing the decision as you would no doube phrase it. Whatever you call it, it has to be pathological.
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  4. SECund2nun
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    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine WM surviving next season unless he wins the SEC East or he wins 10 or more games. I wanted WM gone, but at least he is returning with a new superior offensive philosophy and will keep his hands off of the offense. He can recruit and coach defense, so let's hope we hire a good OC and he turns the offense around. I think our offensive talent is better than it appears. I still have serious questions about WM on coaching intangibles, making the critical call during the game, roster/recruiting management, and won't be convinced of his ability to keep his hands off of the offense and let the OC do his thing and hiring a good OC until he actual does it.
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  5. capnpen
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    capnpen Active Member

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    I understand the opposition to further negative comments about Muschamp. At this point, we need to be hopeful that he will work out. But we also cannot suspend reality. Next season will be a bitch for Muschamp, in large part because of the reasons given by the OP. Muschamp has a huge percentage of players who have left for other programs. Today's announcement only further aggravates that. Whether or not any of these guys would have seen the field isn't the OP's point. The problem is either that we recruited them in the first place when they weren't good to play here, or we brought them in and never developed them. In either case, that's a huge problem, and one that won't be solved by bringing in a host of green recruits.
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  6. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the same thing when Bama does it every year?
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  7. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    Meyers terrible roster management. Muschamps misses early in recruiting and unreal amount of injuries and administrations rules that hurt roster management all contributed to last season. I think we are fine though.

    When Foley first announce Muschamp was coming back I thought it would be a 1 year thing where he had to win like 10 games. But now the more I think about it Muschamp is going to be here for the next two years. If he wins 8 games I think Foley keeps him. I am not saying I agree but I think that is what is going to happen. Yes crying for his head doesnt help the program since we all know Muschamp is going to be the coach next year but it is your right to do.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
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  8. capnpen
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    capnpen Active Member

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    Consider the offensive players who have transferred since Muschamp arrived, regardless of the reasons of the transfers.

    Class of 2010 (Meyer) (4 transfers)- Chris Dunkley, 5-star WR; Gerald Christian, 4-star TE; Michael McFarland, 4-star TE; Ian Silberman, 4-star OT

    Class of 2011 (3 transfers) - Jacoby Brissett, 4-star QB; A.C. Leonard, 4-star TE; Ja'Juan Story, 4-star WR

    Class of 2012 (4 transfers) - Kent Taylor, 4-star TE; Rhaheim Ledbetter, 4-star S/FB; Quinteze Williams, 3-star DE/OL; Jessamen Dunker, 4-star OT

    Class of 2013 (2 transfers) - Trevon Young, 3-star OT; Max Staver, 3-star QB

    That's 13 scholarship players from the offensive side of the ball, with the biggest hits coming at tight end (4) and on the offensive line (4). And only a few of these guys were 3-star players. Clearly, this has to affect depth and leadership.
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  9. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    Well you have to talk about why they left. Attrition happens at other large schools SEC schools too they just have had a steady coach and are allowed to over sign. Not a lot of leaders in that group either. I see some projects some kids that got beat out and some trouble makers
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  10. capnpen
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    capnpen Active Member

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    So this is just part of the process and there's nothing that any coach can do about it? Is that the answer? We just recruit and hope to hell that it works out, and if it doesn't, then we wash our hands and say, "Oh well. It happens."
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  11. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    Attrition is a part of college football especially when you have a coaching transition. It is pretty safe to say Bama has been the best football program over the past 6 years. Saban is the king of roster management. If you want to keep up with him and other in the SEC west the administration might want to look at allowing the UF football coach to do the things Alabama is allowed to do. The question is do you sell you soul for wins?
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  12. malscott
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    malscott Premium Member

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    Gator07 Well said. Hey, there's been a ton to bitch about this year and you have every right to do so. Actually you articulated it rather nicely. I'm exhausted hearing myself bitch, but if someone is enamored with mediocrity then they're probably pretty stoked about now. From Foley down it is perplexing at best. If they don't spend the big money to get the right guy in here we'll be singing the blues for years to come. But I mentioned this in another thread...apathy will set in soon and it won't matter any more. We'll soon be like the Buffaloes. Colorado expects to lose but they have fun at games. We've successfully removed ourselves from the list of top tier programs in the country. Now we can only hope...
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  13. KronoGator
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    KronoGator Well-Known Member

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    He shouldn't, next year is year 4, no asterisks.
  14. jaxgator1991
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    jaxgator1991 Well-Known Member

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    I think the last sentence is you're comment in the most important. It really is a one of those situations that is tough to handle. You should set up a poll and see what people think, i would guess probably 75% of the fan base says they would want the administration and coaching staff to sell their souls wins. just a guess though, very interesting point though.
  15. Hasbeen
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    Love the all or nothing scenarios. Not.
    There's plenty of space between the way we approach recruiting and selling our souls. We can find a more productive and effective median that produces better results than we've seen from two of the last three years.
  16. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    No one has to sell their soul to win football games. Over signing or the lack thereof isn't the reason we are where we are.

    We brought in more than 25 in the last class with transfers and such. So getting true frosh with a majority that would redshirt anyhow, isn't the reason we will go without a bowl this season.

    The non stop excuses to blame everyone but the HC for the program he is in charge of, has replaced common sense with minutia of the microscopic kind.

    The schedule we play next season is tough, we will change O's again with that learning curve, and the fan base is tired of excuses to protect a person making millions to get this right.

    I do hope the motto next year is "no excuses." The excuses only make the losses worse.
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  17. Colin
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    Colin Active Member

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    Too many people on this board want coach to fail. Sad.
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  18. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    It sounds crazy but I don't disagree with you. If years like this are allowed to occur then I guess the expectations have been severely lowered around here. I expect another down year next year due to the reasons mentioned above and I expect this same quality of roster building to continue under WM, which will make us SEC also-rans for the next few years as I really don't see Foley canning Muschamp after this season. It would make no sense really. Hes retaining him now, he sees the circumstances. Hes not dumb. Its almost unreasonable to only give him the one more year. Unless somehow that helps us reach the financial tipping point where its more reasonable to dump him.
  19. willymayshayes
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    willymayshayes Active Member

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    Agree. With so many other SEC schools breaking in new QB's, there are not many reasons why we should not win the SEC-E. Remember, even WM said that we're really close.
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  20. LimeyGator
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    Is a do-over like a make-over?

    I'm not sure he needs any more blusher or lipstick...

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