Is This The Death Of Labor Unions?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by diehardgator1, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    I don't know about that field, but in my former field (reporter) I can think of one prime example (my former employer) who beat away a Union takeover by simply offering better pay and benefits than the union package.
  2. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Is this before of after the mandatory union dues are accounted for? For me, I was forced to pay 7.5% of my gross annual salary to the union. It made no difference if I was a member or not. If I chose to opt out of the membership, that 7.5% stayed the same, only labeled "contract maintenance fees" and I could no longer vote in union elections.

    Are union wages more than 7.5% higher, on average, than non-union wages?
  3. GatorGrowl
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    GatorGrowl Forum Admin Staff Member GC Staff VIP Member

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    When I was paying dues they were equivalent to about one hour's wage a week, so about 2.5%

    At that time, you had to pay to the union and have a card, since then it has been changed
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  4. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, the cost to own your own politician has gone up.
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  5. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    If the only ones who end up being able to buy access are those who represent the corporate oligarchs, everyone in this country will be working for minimum wage.
  6. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    And just how did they become oligarchs?

    Would it have anything to do with their ability to pull strings in both parties? Your's included?
  7. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a rather silly response, isn't it Dave? The post I responded to implied that it would be fine for a union to shuttle money around to avoid restrictions, ie. laundering through their operating account is a loophole. I respond that that is a good way to get prosecuted because it's illegal. And you respond with "unions never break any laws, right?"

    Did you seriously think about that before you posted it, or are you really just aiming to be contrary at any opportunity? Because, I have to tell you, not only did I not say that, but that isn't even a strained implication from my post.
  8. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Not at all... It was an honest question. The experience I have with unions has it that unions don't care about the letter of the law. That's why they buy politicians. So they don't have to concern themselves with what's legal and what's not.
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  9. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    For instance. A "secret ballot" as applied by the union.

    First, if you don't vote, it's considered a vote however the union leadership wants you to vote...

    Second, the election is usually held at the LEC office. Each member, in good standing is issued two ballots of different colors, one for "yes" (the way the union leadership wants you to vote) and one for "no" (against the union desires). Via roll call, each member comes to the front of the hall and drops their ballot into the box. The recording secretary carefully notes how each member votes by noting the color of the ballot deposited into the box...
  10. G8trGr8t
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    you only get prosecuted if the prosecutor wants to dig into your fine accounting details. easy to look the other way wrt how the funds get split up once the funs flow into the same pot. and it is really somewhat laughable to assume that unions really care about knowing and willful violation of campaign finance laws
  11. G8trGr8t
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    and if you vote no, you are not considered in good standing for the next vote. it is a joke to say that it is a secret ballot just because you don't have to sign your name and leave a dna sample on your vote.
  12. fredsanford
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    Of course. However, the eventual death of the unions will lead to all of the campaign money flowing one way only.
  13. gatordowneast
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    You are really bitter Fre. Have you been laid off a few times by those vacation home, yacht owning, country club member CEOs?

    If so, why don't you be a CEO of your own firm? Left wing blogger, Fred Sanford for hire?
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  14. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    And what makes you think they are going to "die?"

    Come on, let's not be so dramatic. Perhaps a setback will cause them to rethink their strategy and retune their focus on a more modern approach to worker's rights instead of going by the same-old, 50-year-old playbook. As I said earlier, their problem isn't so much the ability to force people to pay dues but that their message seems to be falling on deaf ears. Ultimately, revenues will come if you are providing something people want. As it is now, fewer and fewer people see any benefit (at least for the cost of dues) to the unions. If I was a leader of a union (and not just concerned with myself and cronies) this is what I would be pondering hard upon. That's a critical flaw in the model that no amount of political wrangling is going to overcome.
  15. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Accounting details is where every white collar criminal case goes. How do you think one proves laundering, RICO, and any number of other financial crimes?
  16. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    One could say the same thing about corporations. Nevertheless, neither are doing their books on TurboTax either.
  17. OklahomaGator
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    g8rjd, do you have a link to the court arguments for this case?
  18. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    For you OG, anytime. The briefs are included in pdf on the docket here (by brief cover color) and the transcript of the argument is available at the top of the listing under "Argument" (Tr.).

    Merits briefs were filed after the cert. petition was granted on 10/1/2013, so you may want to read from there (cert. petitions aren't particularly helpful after merits briefs are filed).

    http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/harris-v-quinn/
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  19. OklahomaGator
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    Thanks for the link, I've saved it now.
  20. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    You really don't understand anything about modern capitalist society, do you?

    Let's try to educate you. CEO's could not care less what working class people in his company make for salary. That may be hard to believe, but it is absolutely true. (They let H.R. worry about this.) They do want to maximize their own income, and to a simpleton, it may seem logical that "stealing" money from the workers is an easy way to do that, but it doesn't work that way. Any CEO with half a brain knows that he has to pay his workers what they are worth on the open market, or they will leave (the better ones will, anyway). Paying them more than what they are worth could be considered wasting money from that perspective, while paying them less would be suicidal. All CEO's will tell you that the company's best assets are the people, and generally, they mean it. (It varies to some degree with the amount of technical knowledge required to do the job, obviously--Walmart is on the opposite end of the scale as General Electric, for example.) They can't afford a mass exodus of talented and dedicated people, whether they are operators, mechanics, or scaffold-builders. Quality of the company's products will go down, and profits will follow shortly thereafter.

    So no, the unions are not what are propping up the salaries of the American worker. It's the job market. Even the unions know this.
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