Is There An Argument to Be Made...

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by BengermanV, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. BengermanV
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    BengermanV Well-Known Member

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    Watching Pat score his 1,000 career point got me thinking. Is there - on the odd chance that we win a National Championship here - an argument to be made that this senior class had a more profound career than the '04s? Three straight Elite Eights and a National Championship would be incredibly stellar.
  2. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    No...but it would easily be the second-greatest class in Florida history behind the 04's.
  3. tommyuf21
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    tommyuf21 Well-Known Member

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    The only way you do better than the 04's is to win three straight.

    It puts what they accomplished into perspective, very rare air up there!
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  4. maleko83
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    maleko83 Well-Known Member

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    If you're using the word profound to mean better, then no way. The number of teams in NCAA history who have won consecutive national championships is incredibly small.

    If you're using the word profound to mean accomplished, I think it's a more interesting question to debate, but IMO still no. But like the argument I made on another thread, since the 04's, I don't think there's been a more accomplished 'class' of college basketball players on any team than this Prather-Wilbiken-Young-Yeguette class. Players don't stick around long enough to have really accomplished classes (ie- I believe this class has 'accomplished' more than the 2011-12 UK national championship team). And not only that, I can't think of another team that's been to two straight Elite 8s since the 04's, let alone three. (I think UCLA went to three straight Final Fours at the same time as the 04's, but I don't remember anyone being on all three teams.)
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  5. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    UK with Darius Miller (and Hood - although he didn't contribute) went to three straight elite eights which included two final fours and a title. I also disagree with 3 elite eights being more of an accomplishment than a national title. Certainly there isn't an objective measure for this, so maybe whats important to you just isn't as important to me.

    To Bengerman's question - I don't think so. Again, same with this question, its subjective. IMO, a class winning two titles in three years is much harder than a class going to four elite eights in a row - one of which was a title. Maybe its just me, but I'm not big on elite eights as being as much of an accomplishment as others are maybe. Who does a team have to beat to get there? 3 straight or whatever is remarkable and shows incredible stability as a program. But IMO its exponentially more difficult to win a championship.

    I'll go further with this by taking a look at what it took to get 3 straight elite eights. Those 3 elite eights required 9 wins. These are the seeds Florida beat in those 3 years: 15, 15, 15, 14, 11, 10, 7, 3, 3. One of those 3 seeds was a BYU team without their 2nd best player.

    Compare that to what the 04's faced during two title runs (12 wins total). 16, 14, 11, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1.

    I think the gap between those two sets of numbers is larger than one title run.

    I also think the fact that the 04's left with one year left shouldn't be dismissed. Sure, they left and, therefore, didn't "accomplish" anything. But when you look at a class I think you should take into consideration, even if just to a small degree, what that class was capable of accomplishing over the course of 4 years.

    One other difference, I'd say at least, between the two classes is that the 04's were STUDS that absolutely made Florida what they were. They were studs surrounded by good supporting players. Both titles were won because of major, major contributions from and reliance on those players (especially Noah, Horford and Brewer). --- Contrarily, I wouldn't say the same for Partic, Will and Casey. This becomes truer the further back in time you go.

    In a way, this question reminds me of the argument we hear every year about the MLB hall of fame. There seem to be some that value "compilers" and other that value dominance even if it wasn't over as long a period of time. Not a perfect analogy.

    In the end, if we're talking 3 elite eights and 1 title vs 2 titles, I'll take two titles every day and think its more difficult to obtain. If I asked you guys if you would trade the last 3 elite eights in for 2 early-ish exits and a national championship, would you really not take it?
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  6. themistocles
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    themistocles Well-Known Member

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    They've done well.

    Trying to say one group that has rather outstanding accomplishments is better than another is much like trying to toss a silver dollar across the Mississippi in Mississippi (that is much easier to do at its origin in Northern Minnesota, where I have walked across it on stones).

    Also, a team is more than its core class. Sure, the 04's are great, but they had a lot of help from Humphrey, Richards and others. Sure, in 2012, the 2010 class did very well, but they had a lot of help from guys named Rosario, Boynton and Murphy among others, like Frazier.

    But, for a team to stay together (this group lost Larson) for four years in these days is quite an accomplishment in and of itself.
  7. maleko83
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    maleko83 Well-Known Member

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    The argument isn't about program success, where we look at programs side by side and compare 4 year clusters. It's about class success. And my answer probably indicates my bias of recruiting a team, and not a collection of one-and-dones.

    So everything you said about trading X for Y is true, because that's only looking at the argument quantitatively. (Your point about Darius Miller is correct and well taken). The question asks us to look at classes over the course of their careers, and this class is one of the best of the last decade.
  8. your_perfect_enemy
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    your_perfect_enemy Well-Known Member

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    04's also won 3 straight SEC tourneys, something this group hasn't done
  9. Jonas
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    Jonas Well-Known Member

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    It would be a great accomplishment, but I don't think the senior class was instrumental for all of the Elite 8s. I believe Young played a decent amount in the 2012 Elite 8, but Scottie and WY played sparingly. Young and Scottie played a lot more for the 2012 Elite 8, but WY was actually injured throughout the Tourney run. Prather provided a great spark of the bench for some games. They were obviously huge contributors for the 2013 Elite 8 run.
  10. TampaGatorFan
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    TampaGatorFan Well-Known Member

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    The '04s were the best basketball team UF has ever had, and one of greatest college basketball teams ever assembled. 3 SEC Tourney titles and back-to-back National Championships make them the #1 Gator hoops team ever, no contest.

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