Is Obama the worst President in US history?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by theorangebluewinagain, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    "Modern era" = time when I or most living people were alive. Which essentially devalues any ranking from the get-go.
  2. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Just how bad would Obama have to be to be in, say, the bottom 5 for these idiot "historians" ?
  3. GatorRade
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    Well I do feel reassured that your list doesn't have all it's democrats at the bottom. I can't help but think that the currently fresh Obama hatred will wane after the next few democrat prezs, however.

    I think there are some very good arguments against this claim. Check my post above on FDR, for example.
  4. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Silver's model says that he would have had to have been at least as bad enough to fail to become re-elected.
  5. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Yup. Even if Obama is the "worst ever" now, he can take comfort in the fact that former "worst ever" presidents like Clinton, Carter, and Bush have seen their popularity and esteem bolstered simply by being out of office for a time and no longer making decisions.
  6. OaktownGator
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    This. And the fact that the overwhelming majority of policy decisions Obama has made have been in lock step with GW, and in pretty similar circumstances except for the economy he inherited and not having to respond to an attack. But where ever GW lands in these mythical historical ratings, Obama will be right in the same vicinity. That's my guess anyway.
  7. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Certainly if foreign policy/security and corresponding civil liberties are important criteria in the rankings. Of course, that hasnt exactly hurt Lincoln, FDR and others, reputation-wise, because we rarely judge only on those criteria.
  8. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Obama's fame bump for "breaking the racial barrier" could also leak into his future perception of greatness as well? I mean, we still hear about Jackie Robinson all the time, but I don't ever hear about Stan Musial. Literally. I first heard of him just now when trying to find a good name to complete that last sentence. The guy won 3 MVPs and I only find out about him by analyzing Barack Obama's potential legacy. (Though to be fair, considering Stan Musial's accomplishments this may speak more of me than MLB, but you get the point).
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  9. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Its true, famous "firsts" always get a bump. I would have to look up the 2nd person to walk on the moon (though I probably knew the answer in my NASA-obsessed youth). Everyone knows Neil Armstrong though, even if he may have been a mediocre astronaut.
  10. shelbygt350
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    It depends on your agenda.

    If you want a free country, a republic, governed for and by the people, yes he is the worst.

    If you want a socialist big central government, intruding on your life, filled with far left liberals, he is a great prez.
  11. OaktownGator
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    Good point.

    I don't think people should get rated that way, but it's human nature. He could well get a bump.
  12. GatorRade
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    Exactly my point from above. If all you care about is agenda, then the "greatest" president is likely to be a synonym for president "that most agrees with my agenda". This creates a curious and uneasy circular outcome of actually making you, the ranker, the "greatest" president, as you likely perfectly agree with yourself.
  13. ncgatr1
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    Harding was the worst ever. I think it will take about a decade after Obama leaves office before he takes the number one spot. There is a reason why he has intentionally delayed his policies. I'm still trying to figure out how he can make a law such as Obamacare and delay portions of that law. He has completely turned Constitutional Law upside down. How he has not been impeached yet is mind boggling.
  14. ThePlayer
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    The foreign policy disaster created by JFK, Carter, Clinton & Obama would have any historian adjust your list.
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  16. neisgator
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    I respect Silver a good deal, but, that is just plain stupid, not to mention beyond simplistic. Silver should tweak his model to deal with deadbeats who will vote for the democratic party for free money. Not too mention the inherent 7-9 point lead Dems start out with because of the media bias. Silver might want to add that little diddy in there as well.
    Obama would get elected for a third, 4th, 5th term if he were allowed to. You can't fight half the population looking for handouts combined with a bought and paid for media.
  17. Row6
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    Could be. An interesting and probably complex field of study. It may be that the Depression and then WWII led to a period of joining together and willful trust in leaders. I know what you mean about the viciousness of 19 th century political journalism, but also recall the idealism of many on both sides of the civil war which I would assume implied trust in leadership.
  18. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    If you recall, Lincoln had to imprison one of the leading Copperhead Democrats, and they were a constant thorn in his side until the 1864 elections. The "idealists" were the radical Republicans, also a thorn in his side, and suspicious of his leadership and motives until his death. I dont think many people trusted Lincoln without reservations. His martyrdom and the success of the war enhanced his reputation greatly, and vindicated many of his iffy decisions.
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    I don't think so based on fairly objective standards. Bush began a major war which is almost uniformly considered a bad idea and a waste. He has left no signature achievements. So far Obama has made no big foreign policy blunders and may even claim some almost big ones: decimating AQ in Pakistan by changing policy and Libya. He has one huge domestic accomplishments in the ACA and another significant one in Dodd-Frank. The jury is still out on him, but Bush is done and not much positive was accomplished except holding us together after 9/11, and that might have been his savior and easiest task.
  20. Row6
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    Again, could be, but you're focusing on the political players whose attitudes might not be the same as the citizenry. Consider the enlistment enthusiasm - well, except in NY - and letters to home from soldiers.

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