Is MAD Enough?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatorchamps0607, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Well that's my point - we like to build boogiemen in our geopolitical narratives.

    "Iran is a suicidal nation just looking for their virgins in heaven."

    Sounds good, right?
  2. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    He's the POTUS; comes with the territory.

    I'm commenting on both current situation, and in the larger scheme--I see no need to isolate the two--nor even a point.
  3. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    Its what I've been thinking reading the responses here.. smh
  4. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully disagree. Iran doesn't want a seat a the big boys table; they just want to erase Israel off the map.

    I don't think they care much about the US, Russia, China, et. al.
  5. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    You are more or less proving my point. You think someone who is acting perhaps irrationally is actually highly rational. Let's say you are right, what makes Iran or North Korea any less "brilliant and calculating," then? They've more or less been able to advance their interests and maintain their power, but in perhaps a more modest fashion.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  6. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    who is Curtis
  7. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    btw, going back to this post--the 'school of thought' which I attributed to 'you and barry', is not MAD, or the requirement of rational thought on both (all?) sides--but the part where you and Barry seem to take rational thought for granted, as if it is a given that all sides will always be--rational.

    That, imo, is not only naive--it is dangerously so. (not from you; you're just a poster--but from the POTUS--it is very dangerous; reminiscent of Jimmy Carter's naive view of the world).
  8. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Well, I'll just throw out this bomb and take the hits. If I could take every nuke from Pakistan and give it to Iran, I'd do it in a second. I will always take the known quantity to the unknown.
  9. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    LeMay. You know, the guy who thought nuclear war was winnable so long as he and his cronies were tucked safely away in a bunker in W. VA.
  10. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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  11. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    And I respectfully disagree back. That is a ploy to engratiate themselves to the people of the region and further build their power and desire to be the pre-eminent power in the region. IMO, Iran's goal is a new Persia. And, frankly, in time I could actually see that not being so bad.
  12. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Assuming your premises, Iran and NK may be said to be matching Russia in 'brilliance' and 'calculation'.

    It doesn't negate the 2 primary points I was/am making:

    1. Russia has been, and remains 'rational'--certainly to/within the extent necessary to make and keep MAD effective;

    2. Even if you want to make the same claim wrt Iran and NK--NOW--it does not necessarily follow that they will always be so (i.e. rational).

    Premises underpinning these points:

    Rational thought is required on all sides, for MAD to be effective. Any 'side' with sufficient nuclear capability to destroy a sizeable nation like US, Russia, China, albeit with their own such destruction 'mutually assured'--must have enough rational thought capacity--ie.--be tethered sufficiently to reality--to understand and grasp, the part about their own destruction, for it to be effective.

    You simply cannot take it for granted that we will always have this rational thought on all sides. Hitler; Stalin; Hussein; Kim Jong Il; Castro; this is just a short list of dictators in our history who could not be trusted with MAD nuclear capability.

    What assurances do we have, that no such a dictator will come into being in the future? And have MAD nuclear capability?

    ...and also not have the rational ability to appreciate their own nation's MAD vulnerability?
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  13. DaveFla
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    Barry's love interest...
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  14. DaveFla
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    DaveFla VIP Member

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    Funny... I've been reminded of the talk about terrorists flying airplanes into the WTC pre-9/11 as I am reading the responses here. Of course, we all know how THAT one turned out, don't we?
  15. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you base Iran's alleged ambition on--I'm only aware of their obsession with destroying Israel.

    (well, theirs, and pretty much the rest of the middle east's).
  16. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    This last line is where you make a critical mistake. They are not Arab and not Sunni and have historically been at odds with both. Do some research on Iran. It is easily the most civilized and educated country in that region and it really isn't close.
  17. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Iran doesn't want Israel gone. Israel provides an effective boogeyman to blame social problems on for the government in Iran (just as it does for a variety of other governments in the region). If Iran was really interested in the destruction of Israel, to the point of lacking rationality, they would be acting a lot more aggressively towards Israel than they are. The conflict with Israel, which requires the continued existence of Israel, is in the best interests of Iran's leaders.
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  18. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Silly me...taking them at their word...

    Iran is dedicated to annihilating Israel, the Islamic regime’s military chief of staff declared Sunday.


    “The Iranian nation is standing for its cause and that is the full annihilation of Israel,” Maj. Gen. Hassan Firouzabadi said in a speech to a defense gathering Sunday in Tehran.


    His remarks came on the day International Atomic Energy Agency director Yukiya Amano flew to Tehran to negotiate for inspections of Iran’s nuclear program. They were reported by the Fars News Agency, the media outlet of the Revolutionary Guards Corps.


    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/20/i...top-iranian-military-commander/#ixzz2wcP5X5Gv
  19. mdgator05
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    So you think that they are murderous and irrational but would never be dishonest in pursuit of a goal? That is kind of an odd assumption.
  20. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily saying that; just pointing out that I didn't pull the '...wipe Israel off the face of the earth' bit, out of my rear end.

    Your hypothesis/theory MAY be correct; but it's not very authoritative.

    What I provided, came straight from the horse's mouth.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014

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