Iran leader- the only solution is the complete destruction of Israel

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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  2. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Color me surprised.

    Although it does remind me of something I heard Netanyahu say before as an historical lesson learned from World War II: "When someone says they want to destroy you, believe them."
  3. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    And he's exactly the kind of idiot that makes it harder to advocate for what are, IMO, legitimate major complaints that the Palestinians have:

    The line Israel picked for the West Bank Wall is a ham-fisted attempt at annexation? I'm on board.

    The West Bank Settlements are illegal? Still got me 100%.

    The Israeli police force doesn't fairly enforce the law (in comparison between settlers and Palestinians) and pays little attention to crimes against Palestinians? Still generally agreed.

    The citizenship laws create a de facto apartheid state? We're getting much more inflammatory in the language, but I don't think the sentiment is entirely incorrect.

    The blockade and entry controls to the territories, as they are implemented, do more to legitimately upset Palestinians than they do to protect Israelis? Okay.

    Certain of the IDF actions when they move into the territories intentionally constitute collective punishment? We've gotten more controversial here, and it's certainly not true of all, but at times yes.

    We need to destroy Israel? No, you idiot, you had fair points until now. Why did we have to go and swap them out for crazy?
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  4. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder where Hamas get
    Ben, the Palestinians problem first and foremost is Hamas. Nothing good can happen with them running the show.
  5. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Its probably a fair conclusion if you think there is no political solution to those problems, and you're not concerned with the geo-political ramifications of dislocating millions of people who know no other home. ;)
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  6. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Hamas is running the show because Likud and the Israeli far-right is running the show, and vice versa. Its not a vacuum. The political situations in Israel and Palestine are dialectic.
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    [​IMG]
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  8. gatorman_07732
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    So Hamas in charge is Israel's fault? Keep making this stuff up and sooner or later you'll believe it.
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  9. G8trGr8t
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    no worries, the ayatollah will soon have the nuke trigger completed and then he can withstand sanctions long enough again to complete the fuel enrichment process. then he can blackmail the west just like NK does or maybe smuggle a nuke or 2 to hamas and deny all responsibility.
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  10. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    That's not true at all. Hamas won elections in Gaza because the PA's candidates, much like the PA has always been, were known as corrupt. The PA has a pretty significant reputation as being a nice receiver of funds, but a particularly bad distributor to anything but its own pockets. Hamas's candidates were people who lacked the reputation for corruption, but aligned themselves with a terrorist organization.

    The absence of reputation for corruption is what swept them into office. The false wall between their political and military wings is what continues to be their problem.

    Gazans may blame Israel for their problems, but they are really responsible for them by electing who they have for leaders. And I feel for them because they haven't been given a decent option, but they haven't made one either. And the consequences they are suffering are the result of their choices.

    But contrary to the prevailing popular belief, everything that happens in the Middle East, in Gaza and in the West Bank, isn't necessarily because of Israel.
  11. oragator1
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    The Iranians don't give a rip about the Palestinians. Not only are they Sunni, no one in the region treats them well, they are forced into refugee camps in the neighboring countries and not even allowed to formally enter.
    They only get support when it benefits the other countries, like now.

    But to the point about Israel creating Hamas, it isn't without merit. Hamas is popular not only because they stand up to Israel who are seen as oppressors, but because in a long time vacuum in part created by the occupation they and other terrorist groups fill vital social service roles that are lacking. They provide things like food, education for kids (with their own ideology of course) and other basic services. They are viewed as the only competent organization in the territory.
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  12. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    There's a fantastic Haaretz article today making exactly that point: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.606791

    The conclusion:

    "Hamas’ great ally is despair. It grows stronger when Palestinians decide that settlement growth has made the two-state solution impossible. It gains strength when Palestinians decide that leaders like Abbas and Salam Fayyad are fools for helping Israel police the West Bank while getting only massive settlement subsidies in return.

    Nothing would weaken Hamas more than growing Palestinian faith that through nonviolence and mutual recognition, they can win the basic rights they’ve been denied for almost half a century. Israel’s best long-term strategy against Palestinian violence is Palestinian hope. Unfortunately, as effective as Benjamin Netanyahu has been at destroying Palestinian rockets, he’s been even more effective at destroying that."
  13. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I dont think saying that Hamas is politically viable at least in part because of the current Israeli goverment is "blaming" Israel. Israel has the right to determine their leadership, as does Palestine, but its not like these elections happen in a vacuum. You've got two reactionary governments reacting off one another.
  14. gatorman_07732
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    Hamas is a massive propaganda campaign and manipulators by themselves. They don't give a rip about the Palestinian people and that's the unavoidable truth at the end of the day. They will use babies and women as shields just for a marketing campaign. Don't fall for that propaganda that they've been created by Israel. The Palestinian people can very live peacefully in Israel should they choose.
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  15. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    That's just the thing they're not political viable by a long shot. They're no more political viable than the Third Reich was politically viable.
  16. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I hope you mean they can live very peacefully with Israel.

    If the solution is really "they can live very peacefully in Israel," they've got a pretty damn good reason for resisting.

    To the broader points, read the article I posted. It's from a liberal Israeli newspaper, but addresses the arguments about why Palestinians get driven into the arms of Hamas and a proposed solution of how you deal with that.
  17. gatorman_07732
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    They could live peacefully inside or outside of Israel if they so choose, how is that?
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  18. MichiGator2002
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    They always could have lived peacefully in Israel if they would have; the only reason we speak of a two-state solution is because they won't. The world that did just fine without a "palestinian state" for... well, always, suddenly desperately needed one if peace would hold after Israel was established -- not by Zionist invasion or conquest, but by the UN.
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  19. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I don't know, the Third Reich was pretty viable, not to say there was no internal resistance. But the Nazis enjoyed enough popular support to stay in power until their country was occupied by foreign powers.

    Wars and violence are a pretty good way to stay viable too, especially if you can portray someone else as the aggressor (i.e. Israel). Given what's gone down, its a rather persuasive portrayal too.
  20. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    The Palestinians elected hamas-they are now one in the same
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