Very long read, but very interesting. This Minister was very active in the anti-abortion crowd for many years starting in the late 80's, but more recently had a change of heart. From his own words: SCHENCK: Certainly, I think there must be space for people to safely emotionally and physically resolve their crisis personally. Reality is that even if abortion were to be criminalized, to be made illegal across the United States, there would still be abortion, and it would be supremely unsafe. It would be criminal. It would be exploitative. It would be extremely dangerous. And that's a reality all of us must face. We can deny it. We can wish that it weren't so. We can imagine that it won't be. But reality proves - and I'm going back millennia. We don't have to go back to the 1960s. We can go back to ancient Rome and Greece and find evidence that there will always be a way to procure abortion, and that should be a reality all of us care deeply about. Also has an opinion on the what he calls Faustian bargain evangelicals made with President Trump much later on in the interview: GROSS: Why do you think that the alliance between Trump and evangelicals might lead to the demise of the evangelical community as we know it? SCHENCK: Because Donald Trump is a deal-maker, and he made a deal with evangelicals. He said, I will give you everything you want if you give me everything I want. And what I want is a religious imprimatur. I want a pass on moral accountability. And I want a full-throttled embrace of my policies and my movement - my political movements. And you will give that to me. And in return, I will give you your laundry list of demands. That's the deal that's being worked out right now. And that's supremely demoralizing to a faith that is to speak to the conscience of the political realm - not to be its errand agents, to be subservient to and subject to the political forces. It's to speak to the conscience of the nation - not to be its agent for carrying out what, in many cases, is an immoral agenda. There is a lot in there that I agree with, and personally, I hope he's right about any next wave of evangelicals about being more spiritual and less political. It's one thing to let your religion guide you when you're a politician. It's another to impose those views on everyone, including those who aren't the same religion as you.