If the safeties are going to play 12 yards from the LOS, you have to take shots

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by UFreak, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. UFreak

    UFreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    IT doesn't mAtter who the QB is. Man, it is frustrating to see us run on first down every time when we could throw a very safe pass for a TD. It would have been a great confidence throw for Murphy going forward. We certainly set it up enough.
    Seriously, we had the play action all day, any time we wanted it. Just don't quite get it. It would have been a super safe throw.
  2. BengermanV

    BengermanV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,326
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +682
    We did take shots today, and it showed in the second half. Run game opened up a ton.
  3. gator1986

    gator1986 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,214
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Venice Beach, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +570
    Yea I couldn't agree anymore. He's got 2 very manageable games in a row to boost his confidence. Lets hope the coaches utilize him correctly.
  4. PIMking

    PIMking New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    10,535
    Likes Received:
    895
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tuscaloosa, AL (Ft. Myers)
    Ratings Received:
    +895
    we did open it up

    passed alot early and if you don't remember that's how they scored their first td
  5. rserina

    rserina VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,219
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,977
    We go over this every week. You have to run against a loaded box. That's what makes play action against it so effective. You create extra gaps to fit in the box when you go with your unbalanced lines and jumbo packages. Plus, if you don't have base personnel in for that first down play, you can't exactly check out of it to a throw.

    As others have said, we threw on first downs pretty frequently before the Driskel injury. Given how well our defense was playing, the last thing we wanted to do was put an inexperienced quarterback with only average passing skills in position to make a mistake in his first live action.
  6. gator07

    gator07 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +703
    Agreed. The crazy part is like you said its not even a risky play. Let a guy run a deep post on play-action. Its either an incompletion most likely or a big play. Makes no sense.
  7. UFreak

    UFreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    Yes, you do have to run against a loaded box. Just not every time.
    The play action would have been a very low-risk play and likely an easy 6. We could have protected with ease.
    It's a super easy throw. 12 yards and I'm being conservative. May have been 10 for several of the plays. It's a cake throw.
    Got to let em play.
  8. SECund2nun

    SECund2nun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    6,462
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +794
    We took some shots, so it was an improvement. Murphy actually has a nice arm and nice touch. We could take more shots next game if they keep crowding the LOS so much.
  9. UFreak

    UFreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    Can someone pull the stats on how many first down throws Murphy had? Just curious
  10. PIMking

    PIMking New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    10,535
    Likes Received:
    895
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tuscaloosa, AL (Ft. Myers)
    Ratings Received:
    +895
  11. UFreak

    UFreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    I'm talking about specifically for Tyler Murphy. I should have been more clear. Of Tyler Murphy's 26 first down plays, 2 were pass attempts. On another, he scrambled for a long gainer. I think that's it though. Thats pretty darn predictable.
  12. rserina

    rserina VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,219
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,977
    First of all, how do you know what coverage they were running behind it? If it is some form of a zone dog, those can be very difficult for a quarterback to identify and for the protection to pick up. Again, though, what personnel did we have? If we are in a heavy package, pistol, diamond, or two/three tight end sets, we can't possibly check out and throw the ball deep. And how many of our receivers are adept at beating man coverage? Nearly every throw we make beyond ten yards is tight because our receivers have little separation.

    If I were a signal caller, I might set the defense up for a shot, but I would much rather hit the edges with the quick pass game and the perimeter run game. That's what we did with Patton's touchdown catch and run.
  13. UFreak

    UFreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    We're not going to agree on this. It doesn't matter what D you are facing when the safeties are bunching the line. Our receivers can beat man coverage if the entire center of the field is open. It's basically a 1 on 1 play with a lot of field. You are clouding the issue with who is in for protection. If you can't run the play action with the personnel you have on the field, then what's the point? Just let everyone know it is an automatic run?
    Nah, that was an easy throw and it was there the entire second half on first down.
  14. gator07

    gator07 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +703
    Yep. It shouldn't be as complicated a concept as Florida tries to make it.
  15. rserina

    rserina VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,219
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,977
    And it was also pretty darn efficient. By my count, there were 23 first down plays, we had 20 carries for 89 yards (excluding the final kneel down), but that also the one fumbled snap for five lost yards. Regardless, if you can average 4 yards a pop against a loaded box, I don't see much to complain about. Even if you take away the 28-yard run and the five-yard fumble loss, then you are still over 3.5 yards a carry, which given the circumstances is not terrible either. Only four of those first down runs were for less than four yards.
  16. UFreak

    UFreak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    Not questioning the efficiency. Questioning why not take the easy shot.
  17. rserina

    rserina VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,219
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,977
    It doesn't matter what defense you are facing if the safeties are squeezing? You bet your tail it does. They can easily split the field into a cover two or man under or one of them can bail deep in a cover three. Now, you can set them up and try to catch them in a zero coverage or man free and hope they bite on the play fake, but it is still a riskier move than you let on. The staff understandably didn't want to take a risk with their defense playing as well as it was, and the efficiency I cited on this speaks to their decision.

    Well, about a third of our plays are run with specialty packages intended to run the ball and we seldom throw out of them. And they work, often to great effect, even though the defense knows that is coming for the precise reasons I stated in my initial response to you.
  18. NoahBeanBizzel

    NoahBeanBizzel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +610
    I thought Pease did a great job of making the game manageable for an inexperienced QB. I think Murphy surprised the staff. Early on you saw the heavy packages, counters, sweeps, option plays, etc...

    But Pease gave him some confidence with that early screen to Patton, and then I thought he did a great job of gradually opening it up. And Murphy surprised me with his poise throwing the football. I thought Brent did what he felt he had to to beat Tennessee. And it absolutely worked.

    Now, I'll agree that there may come a point where we'll have to throw more on first down against some of the better defenses we'll see, but I'm cool with doing whatever works to get the win. And I thought Pease did a wonderful job of breaking in Murphy.
  19. gator07

    gator07 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +703
    I agree and I think this kid can handle more. I just hope that Pease and WM are ready to put more on his plate. He showed a lot out there and he deserves to be given a longer leash in the future to see what he can really do. He made conversions, scored in the red zone, threw into tight windows, etc. He earned it today.

    TM played a great game considering the circumstances.
  20. rserina

    rserina VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,219
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,977
    Exactly. I am not contesting throwing the ball in those situations, but we clearly wanted to manage Murphy at this stage. He will get those chances, especially as teams start keying on the perimeter run and quick pass stuff.

Share This Page