If it's December, it must be time for ....

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by rivergator, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. seahawk
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    seahawk Member

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    Yes, dear. What the world needs is more sticklers.

    The Federal Reserve sends bank inspectors out to see that the banks are behaving themselves. In a small town in Oklahoma, they discovered...Christmas. And even worse, Christianity:
    "Federal Reserve examiners [who came for a regularly scheduled inspection visit] deemed a Bible verse of the day, crosses on the teller’s counter and buttons that say “Merry Christmas, God With Us. “ ... inappropriate. The Bible verse of the day on the bank’s Internet site also had to be taken down.... Specifically, the feds believed, the symbols violated the discouragement clause of Regulation B of the bank regulations. According to the clause, “...the use of words, symbols, models and other forms of communication ... express, imply or suggest a discriminatory preference or policy of exclusion. “ ..."[Feds Force Okla. Bank To Remove Crosses, Bible Verse, KOCO Oklahoma City, December 17, 2010]
    This is, of course, part of the Lunch Counter Law, that says you can't have a sign that says "Whites Only." The "Lunch Counter Law" (formally the Civil Rights Act Of 1964)is, as Eugene Volokh points out, a pretty generally recognized exception to the First Amendment. That is, you don't have Freedom of Association, and therefore you don't have Freedom Of Speech on the subject of Freedom of Association. However, Volokh, who is a First Amendment expert, says that the Fed is pretty clearly wrong here.
    It seems to me that the Fed action is a pretty clear First Amendment violation. Businesses may indeed be barred from stating that they will not engage in commercial transactions with members of certain groups; that’s a somewhat unusual but well-settled aspect of First Amendment “commercial speech doctrine,” which is more properly thought of “commercial advertising doctrine.” (See Pittsburgh Press Co. v. Pittsburgh Comm’n on Human Rels. (1973), which has been cited favorably by the Court even in more recent commercial speech cases.) But businesses retain a First Amendment right to express their views, including even views that might be actually seen as insults to particular groups, see, e.g., Sambo’s Restaurants, Inc. v. City of Ann Arbor (6th Cir. 1981). And businesses certainly retain a First Amendment right to say things that might simply be seen as expressing endorsement of a particular religion.
    Note, incidentally, that the bank regulators’ actions, if accepted, would mean that a vast range of businesses — not just banks — would be barred from putting up religious symbols. The antidiscrimination rules applicable to banks are very similar to the antidiscrimination rules applicable to a wide range of businesses under federal and state laws.
    Senator Jim Inhofe, (remember him?) agrees, and has sent Ben Bernanke (remember him?) a strong letter on the subject.
    LINK: http://www.koco.com/Feds-Force-Okla...erse/-/9844716/10744952/-/kamexm/-/index.html


    I’m not a big believer in the “war on Christmas” rhetoric that we often hear around this time of year. In a religiously diverse and pluralistic society like ours, politicians, corporations, and other institutions are naturally going to adjust the way they express themselves in order to avoid offending their constituents or customers[​IMG].
    But every so often in my work at the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), I see an example of seasonal political correctness so ridiculous that it makes me want to put my head down on my desk. Such is the case at Western Piedmont Community College (WPCC) in North Carolina, where a Christmas[​IMG] tree sale fundraiser for a student group was unilaterally changed to a “holiday tree” sale by campus administrators.
    At WPCC, an environmental student group called the BEST Society decided to hold a fundraiser for a group called Angel Tree, which provides Christmas (er … holiday?) gifts to children[​IMG] by selling Christmas (aargh, I mean holiday!) trees to the local community. According to the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), the Christian legal organization representing the group, the college allows student groups to use various spaces on campus, in the college newspaper, and online to advertise their activities. So the BEST Society filled out a form asking the college to announce that “The BEST Society will be selling Christmas trees.” And at first, the college did. But within days, the word “Christmas” in the message was replaced with “holiday” in every single venue. (It has since been changed back, but here’s an example of it.)
    WPCC has therefore revealed itself to be another adherent of what I have called the “magic words” or “Lord Voldemort” school of censorship. In the massively popular Harry Potter books , most characters will not say the name of the main villain, “Lord Voldemort,” instead calling him “He-who-must-not-be-named.” Their worry is that if they say Voldemort’s name, they will magically attract his attention, with dire consequences. College to student group: No selling Christmas trees, only ‘holiday’ trees, Daily Caller, November 28, 2012

    Link: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/28/c...o-selling-christmas-trees-only-holiday-trees/
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
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  2. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Apparently so.
  3. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    When you compare the number of replies you have had in this thread to mine, I would say that your claim is inaccurate.
  4. malligator
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    malligator Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure where the left got the idea that the war on Christmas is all about saying Happy Holidays. I've never in my life given a flip about someone saying Happy Holidays to me. I think it's disingenuous for a company to have a commercial that is 100% Christmas in imagery and message, but then never mention the word 'Christmas' at all, but that's a different thing than someone saying Happy Holidays to me.

    No, the war on Christmas is the systematic prohibition of Christmas by municipalities, schools, HOA's, etc. It escalates a little bit each year. As I mentioned earlier in the thread last year was the first year I saw Holiday Tree mentioned anywhere. Now it's popped up in a few places. I'm sure something new will pop up this year.
  5. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I'll agree that is going on, but I'm not sure I'd call it a war. Does it affect your celebration of Christmas in any way?
  6. seahawk
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    seahawk Member

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    Like I was saying, pretty soon saying "Merry Christmas" will be seen as "racist" or "antisemitic." Give it another 5 years or so...

    Bill O'Reilly Once Reprimanded By ADL Over War On Christmas

    Bill O'Reilly's Christmas crusade has not gone unchallenged. In 2004, on his radio show, Bill O'Reilly spoke with a Jewish person who felt that Christmas activities, in public schools, were attempts to shame and possibly convert Jewish kids. Bill went into a tirade with the caller, telling him that this is a "predominately" Christian nation and that if the caller couldn't accept that, he should move to Israel. He described the caller's comments as "an affront to the majority." Not surprisingly, the Anti-Defamation League quickly responded.

    The ADL's Abraham Foxman sent a letter to O'Reilly which informed him that he played into the "canard" that Jews are not fully citizens and that "The notion that religious minorities have no place in a Christian America and should leave may be acceptable for extremists, but it is unacceptable coming from a popular and respected media commentator."

    The radio conversation can be found in this article, written by a Jew with an advanced degree in Jewish studies, about the offensiveness of Bill O'Reilly's so called "war on Christmas" and how its basic premise, that non-Christian others are trying to kill Christmas, is based on the idea that castigates Jews as "Christ-killers." The author speculates that rather than directly attacking the Jews for attacking Christmas (as have white nationalists), O'Reilly has conveniently made up the term "secular-progressives."

    Obviously, we don't know if O'Reilly is anti-Semitic; but his war on Christmas has a very dark underside. And as I noted, in any discussion of what cannot be called a holiday but rather, Christmas, there is no mention of Hanukkah.​

    http://www.newshounds.us/20121212_bill_o_reilly_once_reprimanded_by_adl_over_war_on_christmas
  7. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Bring it on. Looking forward to your new thread.
  8. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the universal measurement of "care." :D
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  9. seahawk
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    seahawk Member

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    The war on Christmas is worldwide (Brussels Bans ‘Offensive’ Christmas Tree For Muslims http://www.therightperspective.org/...istmas-tree-for-muslims/#sthash.RRv5Wrkk.dpbs ).
    England has an official state religion but I seem to remember reading about the Labour Party secretly plotting against Christmas so as to help legitimize the concept of a multicultural state. I also recall reading about a seventh grader who was called a "Nazi" and an "antisemite" for calling the tree at his private school a "Christmas tree." Separation of church and state doesn't apply to private schools, right?

    The LA Times have essentially acknowledged that there's a" war on Christmas":

    “The salvos between politically correct busybodies and pious protesters in 2004 were equally intense. Denver prohibited a church group from participating in its annual Parade of Lights because it wanted to sing Christmas songs; a New Jersey high school barred its band from playing religious-themed Christmas music; a Kansas newspaper published a correction apologizing for calling a Community Tree a Christmas Tree; and a priest got in trouble for telling kindergartners that Jesus—not Santa— was the reason for Christmas.”

    But the war on Christmas didn't start in 2004 either. In fact, it's been ebbing and flowing for centuries wherever Christianity is practiced — and especially in the United States. Debating how — or even whether — to celebrate Christmas seems to be one of Americans' favorite pastimes.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/la-op-hemingway24dec24,0,7661910.story#ixzz2nCEe1h2H


    The war on Christmas is really an attack on Western civilization. Traditional white Christian America is the enemy of the Democrat Party, which has been fairly described as "a collection of warring tribes that has come together in anticipation of common plunder."

    Christmas is the most important national holiday and also the most important Christian holiday. America's national identity is defined as being a Christian nation. It is precisely because Christianity is vital to our national identity that there is a war against it. That's the reason there is now a nationwide resistance to that war by Americans who wish to preserve traditional America.

    The war on Christmas deniers are instructive, their denial of a war on Christmas indicates that they'll lie about just about anything. Virtually all Democratic politicians claimed that:

    "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." ​

    "War on Christmas denial" means you can't say "Merry Christmas" and you can't complain about it either.

    20,000 Jews walked out of NY City public schools in 1906 to protest the celebration of Christmas. Truth: a lot of secular Jews hate Christian culture (The ACLU has looked at school curiculums from all over America to see if "winter breaks" are being called "Christmas breaks.") This pissed a lot of people off so many school districts went back to calling them "Christmas breaks." One man was reportedly so enraged by this that he set himself on fire. The man also set fire to also set fire to a Christmas tree, an American flag and a revolutionary flag replica, according to Fire Captain Garth Milam." (http://hotair.com/archives/2006/12/23/another-moron-lights-himself-on-fire/).

    Traditional America is making gains in the war:

    War on Christmas ends as House allows members to send Christmas, Hanukkah greetings, by Alexis Levinson, The Daily Caller, December 4 2012.

    Until Wednesday, any expression of “Merry Christmas,” “Happy Hanukkah,” “Happy Holidays,” or the like was forbidden from official congressional correspondence. The postage on such correspondence is paid for with taxpayer money, or “franked,” so there are regulations to ensure that members do not abuse taxpayer funds for their personal use.

    But Republican Rep. Candice Miller, who chairs the Franking Committee, has changed that policy.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/04/war-on-christmas-ends/

  10. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    That's it. You've figured us out.

    I mean, seriously, why not claim there are Martians living in your basement and they keep stealing all your M&Ms?
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  11. BobK89
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    BobK89 Well-Known Member

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    Was sitting at the Old Sombrero watching the Bucs lose to the Packers that day. With the sun out it was still one of the coldest games I've ever been to.

    Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry
  12. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Note: This is Part 1 of a long post. When I tried to post it I received a message saying "Please enter a message of no more than 10,000 characters." Part 2 is longer and will follow shortly.

    Yes, in 2012 the traditional Christmas tree was gone from Brussels Grote Square, replaced by an electronic sculpture that was in keeping with last years theme of light. Another sentence further down the page in the article you linked above reads:
    Another article on the matter also quoted the Brussels mayor:
    http://www.expatica.com/be/news/bel...Christmas-tree-on-the-Grote-Markt_249964.html
    Even though the electronic tree was over 80 feet tall and could be climbed to an observation platform, it proved to be unpopular. The traditional tree returned to the square this year.

    http://www.virtualtourist.com/trave...Do-Brussels-Grand_Place_Grote_Markt-BR-1.html
    This is a non issue. Back in the 1950's and 60's there was a tasteless trend towards white plastic trees. They were ugly and soon disappeared from America's living rooms just as the electronic tree has departed Brussel's Grote Square. Though I can't help but wonder if seahawk would have been as offended and believed a war against Christmas was being waged next door if his neighbors had placed a white plastic tree in their living room.
  13. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Whoops! Will be a Part 3

    Part 2


    seahawk wrote:
    As I had no knowledge this I googled "U.K labour party secretly plots against Christmas to legitimize multiculturalism" to see if I could find a source for your recollection. I found no reference to a Labour Party "secret plot" against Christmas. If you can link to a source supporting your contention I will be happy to read it.

    Again, not having read anything about this incident I relied on good ole google to supply me with info. Good ole google came through and led me to a December, 2012 article published in Chronicles magazine, an online mouthpiece for the Rockford Institute. It was written by Thomas Piatak, a Catholic paleoconservative who also writes for Vdare. Piatak seems to specialize in treatises about the "War on Christmas." Must pay well.

    Piatak recounts the 3rd hand story in that 12/2012 episode of his ongoing retelling of "The War on Christmas."

    http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2012/12/17/the-war-on-christmas/
    http://www.vdare.com/users/tom-piatak
    No, the LA Times did not "essentially acknowledge that there's a' war on Christmas'"
    The article was an opinion piece written my Mollie Ziegler Hemingway, a Lutheran blogger/journalist who has published a few articles and contributed to a blog on patheos.org.

  14. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Part 3

    seahawk wrote:
    Whoa, Christian! Christmas is an annually celebrated event that commemorates the birth of the Christ but it is far from being "the most important Christian holiday." Without doubt that singular day of signature importance would be the Day of the Lord's resurrection - traditionally known as Easter Sunday. In American culture, Christmas only succeeds it in importance in terms of what it means to merchants who profit from the season and insanity of gift giving. Even atheists, agnostics, Buddhists and heathens give gifts on Christmas. Do they celebrate the true meaning of Easter?

    December 25th is a date arbitrarily selected because of it significance in ancient times when Saturnalia was celebrated on that date. Christians can reliably know when the resurrection should be celebrated as it coincides precisely with Passover. Without the resurrection, Christmas means nothing.

    If you are going to insist "[t]he war on Christmas is really an attack on Western civilization" and "Christianity is vital to our national identity" you will need to come up with evidence that is a lot more convincing than what you have supplied in this thread on this forum.

    What does "[t]raditional white Christian America is the enemy of the Democrat Party" even mean?

    And before Buchanan repeated it, who originally described the Dem. Party as "a collection of warring tribes that has come together in anticipation of common plunder"? It was not a statement of good will from a man of Peace.

    Peace on Earth towards men of good will.

    ^^^ This statement smacks of pathetic petulance.

    That was a stupid thing to do. Wonder what he expected to gain with that stunt.


    The House franking website answers questions regarding the restrictions placed on what is permitted and not permitted to be franked. Christmas and other holidays weren't/aren't the only events prohibited. There are strict guidelines and a Daily Caller article touting that some skirmish in the "war on Christmas" has ended distorts the purpose of the restrictions. That the government gave in on this one surprises me.
    http://cha.house.gov/franking-commission/franking-faq

    I can only speculate why you and others find it necessary to insist there is a "war on Christmas" and look for 'evidence' that it exists. That you evidently read the article written by Piatak does indicate who is influencing your political and religious views.

    This persistent annual squealing does nothing but re-inforce my view that Christianity has its share of paranoid individuals who apparently find their faith affirmed and justified in their insistence they - and their faith - are being attacked.

    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
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  15. oragator1
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    oragator1 Premium Member

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    The Brussels story is covered by lacuna, but the LA Times didn't endorse it, one of their (few) conservative writers wrote an editorial, nothing more. She is fact a self professed "religion nerd" whose goal is to write more about overzealous interpretation of separation of church and state.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/getreligion/m-z-hemingway/

    Fact is, we are a country of over 300 million people. If you get 3 people in a room you can't get them to agree on anything, let alone 300 million. The number of cases annually that are trotted out against that population size and diversity are generally minuscule and mostly meaningless (and yes, still mostly government related). No one is stopping anyone from celebrating or enjoying christmas, there arent any raids on Christmas parties, no one is going to jail for hanging a wreath, no one is getting beaten up if they are caught with a Christmas tree, in fact Christmas is probably more popular than it has ever been, so enjoy it.
    Not sure why everyone in this country on all sides of the aisle have the almost pathological need to believe that they are being persecuted. Liberals claim it's conservatives who are self professed victims (media, Christianity etc), conservatives think its liberals (discrimination, class warfare etc), fact is, it seems to be everybody. Sign if a self entitled culture I suppose.
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  16. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    You could save yourself a lot of time and effort and just continually re-post the "Are You Being Persecuted" graph. In any case, well said.
  17. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    This one? Yeah, it's a good one.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks, jdr.
    And Merry Christmas! :)
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  18. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Merry Christmas to you to, Lacuna!
  19. seahawk
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    seahawk Member

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    Not sure what you're talking about. The Brussels Christmas tree banning wasn't an LA Times story. The LA Times article did mention other stories:

    I particularly like the Denver story. The Parade of Lights is evidently an annual event designed to attract Christmas shoppers to the downtown area of Denver. Christmas floats were banned, as was the singing of Christmas carols. These activities were allowed, according to the Parade of Lights website:

    Once again this year, the parade is proud to present an International Procession to celebrate the cultural and ethnic diversity of the region. Groups in the International Procession include Belly Dance Concepts, Colorado Mestizo Dancers, Denver Taiko Drummers, Mudra Dance Studio, Shaolin Hung Mei Kung Fu, T.E.V. Edelweiss Schuhplattlers, and Two Spirit Society of Denver.

    In addition to the amazing floats, balloons and bands, the 9NEWS Parade of Lights features countless other performers who each add a special touch to the evening. This year, featured performers will include Artistic Fusion Dance, Belles Performance Team, Centre of Dance, Colorado Clowns, Colorado School of Dance, Kit Andree Dance & Performing Arts Company, Peak Academy of Dance, Action Dance Express, and Denver Figure Skating Club.

    http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=139753&sid=c992324d678634e8a0b46422e8528806


    In Israel you may be in danger of getting beat up if you have a Christmas tree:


    Forbidden to celebrate: Israel’s war on Christmas continues despite Netanyahu’s claim of tolerance

    Netanyahu’s professions of tolerance would have come as news to Palestinian Christian students at Safad Academic College in the Galilee. There, students who could not get home for the holidays bought a Christmas tree and set it up outside their dorm.

    But in the evening when they got back from class, they found the tree was gone, Israel’s Walla! News reported.

    “This is the saddest Christmas,” said Gabriel Mansour, 24, a third-year political science student, identified by Walla! as a representative of Arab students. “All we wanted to do was provide some good cheer for all the students who remained alone in the dorms, and who were unable to go home to their families.” When Mansour investigated, he was told by college officials that the [Christmas] tree had been hidden lest it spark riots among the Jewish students.

    “I was angry to hear this,” said Mansour of the claim that the tree might spark riots among Jewish students and residents of Safad. “Unfortunately they don’t respect our holidays. We fully respect all Israeli holidays. Why can no one respect our traditions? Why can’t we put up a Christmas tree?”

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs...-christmas-continues-despite-netanyahus-claim

    Maybe that helps to explain the widespread belief that Jews are inordinately responsible for trying to remove Christmas from the public square here in America.


    Christmas Eve is one of the few occasions when Hasidim refrain from Torah study, do not conduct weddings or go to the mikveh. But they do play chess and work on their bills.

    On Christmas Eve, known in Jewish circles as Nitel Night, the klipot (shells) are in total control. The klipot are parasitical evil forces that attach themselves to the forces of good. According to kabbala (Jewish mysticism), on the night on which “that man” — a Jewish euphemism for Jesus – was born, not even a trace of holiness is present and the klipot exploit every act of holiness for their own purposes.

    For this reason, Nitel Night, from nightfall to midnight, is one of the few occasions when Hasidim refrain from Torah study. On this horrific night, they neither conduct weddings nor do they go to the mikveh (ritual bath). An entire folkloric literature has developed around the unusual recreational activities of Nitel Night.

    ...

    The Knesset correspondent of the ultra-Orthodox newspaper Hamodia, Zvi Rosen, relates that celebrated Hasidic admorim (sect leaders) would cut a year's supply of toilet paper for Sabbath use (to avoid tearing toilet paper on Sabbath) on this night. Actually, this disrespectful act has profound kabbalistic significance, because kabbalistic literature extensively discusses Christianity as waste material excreted from the body of the Jewish people.
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=518438


    There was a very influential Italian communist by the name of Antonio Gramsci who argued that the only way that Marxism is going to win is by winning the culture wars. Gramsci:

    ...elites rule through their dominance of culture more than through their control of the means of production and revolutionaries who seek to overthrow an elite must first make a long march through the institutions of culture before trying to wield political or economic power.

    Those who control the culture—and especially the means by which culture is presented and interpreted, i.e., the media, art, entertainment, academia, politicians, religious leaders, and others—are far more powerful than most people realize. It is they who control the boundaries of what is permissible to discuss, let alone agree or disagree with. Dr. Francis observed that: “By defining some activities as ‘normative’ and others as violating cultural norms,” cultural elites can “confer or deny legitimacy to certain kinds of behavior, language, and thought as they please.”

    Rather than force, modern rulers have perfected mass deception: “[T]he elites that prevail in politics, the economy, and the culture rule and think in terms of manipulation, deception, and sheer fraud rather than force.” The illusion of continuity is preached by authority figures despite the fact that immigration and social change have turned the West upside down. Maintaining the illusion of normalcy is crucial. After all, if one is not aware that a war is being fought one will never engage in the contest—leaving those who are aware in control.

    The War on Christmas is a subset of the larger culture war, the war against Western civilization. Western civilization is the Great Enemy of Marxism. How to kill Western civilization? Attack its core people and their traditions. Replace its fundamental building blocks (people of European descent, especially Christians) via mass immigration. Immigrants are coming to America in such large numbers that they see no need to assimilate. This process has been compared to genocide.


    In proportion to their number, [incompatible immigrants] will infuse into [the nation] their spirit, warp or bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass.
    —Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/ThomasJefferson/jeff1280.htm


    Instead of keeping the barbarians at the gate, they are being invited in. America is not a "proposition country."
    Barbarians will not “dedicate themselves to a proposition.” Some people, some religions and some beliefs belong inside the gates and others outside.

    Sam Francis, conservative intellectual:

    “Pluralism” and “diversity” are standard code words for those who wage war on American, Western and ‘Eurocentric’ culture. . . Yet for the loudest proponents of ‘pluralism,’ diversity is the last thing they really want. What they want is to delegitimize American, Western and ‘Eurocentric’ traditions and to boost their own anti-Western and anti-American dogmas into the pilot seat." http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...=_ScxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=igMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6707,53579

    The War on Christmas is an attack against Western civilization. It's part of a greater" Culture War." Those who deny the existense of a "War on Christmas" are either oblivious to the obvious, or perhaps more likely, simply dishonest (not refering to oragator or lacuna).
  20. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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