If Iran gets a nuke, what do they do with it?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by OklahomaGator, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Your "best path to avoid conlfict" seems to involve Iran plunging into sectarian violence ala Syria. That's been a real boon for everyone. The best path is one in which Iran moderates overtime as it becomes more economically entwined with the developed world, rather than isolated and unstable.
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  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Iran is still, comically, about the only Middle Eastern state that this administration is gunshy about picking sides in favor of a revolution to overthrow them, despite them being the regime that likes us least.
  3. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it would be suicidal. Not that suicide bombers aren't all the rage in the Middle East these past 20 years or so.

    Wanna take the chance?
  4. g8tr80
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    g8tr80 Well-Known Member

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    Not unless they feel their existence is threatened. It is their ace in the hole. NOBODY is going to threaten Iran ever again. For anything. Ever.

    What it will also do is escalate nuclear proliferation in the region. Why? For protection. MAD baby. Welcome back to the Cold War.
  5. OklahomaGator
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    OklahomaGator Moderator VIP Member

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    Which is why they should never get them.
  6. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. The war was horribly mismanaged from the very beginning. The decision to go to war was the correct one. GWB was not a smart wartime president, and Rummy the Dummy was a horrible Secretary of Defense. Had he listened to his generals even a little, the war would have gone very differently. A crappy war plan does not make the decision to go to war a bad one, unless you knew up front that the war plan was idiotic (which no one could have imagined, after the brilliant war plan in Gulf War I).

    Your analysis on this (that GWB was waving his pecker around to finish something his daddy started) is juvenile, ignorant and absolutely assinine. There were valid objectives to an Iraqi invasion, and those objectives were easily attainable. We had a kindergarten war plan, whereas a high school plan was required for victory. Rumsfeld had no wartime experience, and it showed. Like his boss, Rumsfeld was extremely arrogant and didn't need to listen to anyone. All of the IED's? We supplied the high explosives (hundreds of tons of it, in fact). All of the insurgents? We helped make sure they had funding, due to both incompetent energy policy and lack of clear directives to Iran (not to mention financial handouts by U.S. troops to try to keep the peace). The war plan in Afghanistan wasn't much better. The U.S. accidentally hired Al Qaeda to provide security for road projects. The U.S. provided ammunition to the Taliban through Pakistan.

    All of this is being compounded by Obama's cowardice in Syria. Yet another nation in the middle east is going down the toilet, increasing the general tension and hazards of the region.
  7. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    Obama is speaking for American Jews when it comes to Iran and not the trigger happy neocons and Christian-right, some of which I believe post on this board.

    The only 'leader’ who speaks for American Jews on Iran is Barack Obama
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  8. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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  9. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    A better term instead of the trigger happy jargon of being "gun-shy" would be prudent. It's time to see if we can end this 30-year cold war with Iran perpetuated by the both righties in Israel and America and by the righties in Iran.
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  10. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Suicide bombers are almost exclusively Sunni, which is a vast minority in Iran. Besides which, the functional purpose of suicide bombing (whether radical Islam or Harikari or whatever) is to sacrifice an individual for a larger cause, not to sacrifice the larger cause.
  11. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that the war was mismanaged. But it was also an unnecessary war of choice and sold to the public on a pack of lies.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  12. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    The moderates have no power in Iran...and, moreover, when they tried to take it in 2009, Obama did nothing to help them.

    If your best hope for peace is to enable moderates, then your boy dropped the ball when he had the chance.
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  13. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    That's why plunging the country into violence or arming/enabling "moderates" is not a viable strategy. What my post meant was that trade and interaction would naturally "moderate" the regime, perhaps not into the US sphere or into a secular democracy, but in terms of being a cordial, if still distant & not particularly close partner in world affairs. In other words, I think our strongest asset in nearly any situation is soft power - trade & culture.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure shoehorning in our political ideal in Iran has been a stellar success in the past.

    The Shah's still in power, right?
  15. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot one could read into these comments, chompy. I don't know your intentions but do you honestly believe the whole of the blame for the volatility of Iran falls squarely on the "righties" in all three countries? I mean, is this some kind of twisted view to perpetuate that those who are on the "right" of any country are, like some Liberals claim religions are essentially, the cause of all turmoils within countries? It's hard for me not to assume a lot about your worldview when you say things like this. I mean - either you're simply ignorant of how completely off-the-reservation insane the leaders and administration of Iran is, or you dangerously understate it.

    I agree - I think America, and even Israel, have perpetuated the issue - but they're not the cause, their perpetuation were the results of dealing with a completely volatile and dangerous country. I think America, the left and the right, or, we, all of us, America as a whole[the politicians we've elected], have perpetuated the issues some - but those whole thing you're trying to say about the "righties" is really pretty ridiculous.
  16. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    One of the major reasons that the righties are so opposed to negotiating for a more cordial coexistence with Iran is because it is Obama that is doing the negotiations. They do not want him to have another major achievement in his resume. If he is able to negotiate an acceptable and lasting agreement with Iran and end the over 30-year cold war, which would include having them help resolve the Syrian Civil War, there is little doubt that he would be placed on the same level, by the consensus of historians, as Reagan. It would also sweep Hillary into office, just like GB1 was voted in due to Reagan's success with the USSR.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  17. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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    See you believe the hype dished out by the neocons and the Christian right that Iran is irrational and you can't negotiate with them. The IDF chief thinks different than you when it comes to Iran. Here's what he say: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ll-decide-to-develop-nuclear-weapons-1.426389
  18. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Would this be a bad time to point out that the Friedman's bit about two countries having a McDonald's was BS even when he coined it, and has been repeatedly disproven since? Globalization of trade doesn't prevent war, and there is ever increasing evidence unfortunately that globalization of culture doesn't even exist anymore, or at least can't going forward -- the only culture that can effectively globalize is one whose participants/practitioners/adherents sincerely believe is the best one available and promulgate it. Thankfully, for a good long while, that was British culture. But now the only culture that appears to have any interest is that terrible species of pan-Islamic fundamentalism, which is how they can manage to have made it more than a century of having western trade pour money into them for the purpose of extracting oil but to have been almost entirely immune to western culture.
  19. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    ...or it could be that "the righties" have heard this song and dance before when Clinton tried to be the great peacemaker with North Korea: bribing them with money, food, and the promises of trade...only to be double-crossed and outwitted.

    When you're dealing with untrustworthy characters, the idea is to make them earn your trust, not pass the hippie peace pipe around and assume everyone's upstanding and good at heart.
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  20. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    When they are untrustworthy it's doubtful one could ever truly earn their trust anyway. No really good options whether it's NK or or Iran.

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