If healthy, Gators are National Title Contender...

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by ArtVandelay, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. ArtVandelay
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    ArtVandelay Well-Known Member

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  2. themistocles
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    themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Well, he implies that the 7 man roster the Gators played against Kansas is full strength, which simply isn't true, lacking Walker for the Wing/Guard and Walker for either the 4 or more likely the 5 which is simpler to learn in Billy D's system.

    But yes, if they get to 9 plus Kurtz, then fatigue at the end should not cause the problems I think it has this season in games against good teams were they were 6 or 7 deep (Winconsin, FSU, Connecticut and Kansas).
  3. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Long way to go. This team definitely has potential. We have been talking about the length, athleticism, and versatilty for a while around here, so it is good to see someone on the outside acknowledge it. We will have some flaws that could easily prove to be fatal: our bigs aren't effective scoring in the paint, we don't space the floor very well in the frontcourt, our free throw shooting is erratic, and we have fewer shooters than Donovan would ideally like for his system. When we face teams that have very good zones or can protect the paint with bigs without sagging, we will struggle at times offensively. But the defensive improvement from last season is still palpable (this 2010 class may arguably end up the second most significant for the direction of the program, behind only 2004) and what we can throw at you, from the different zones to the press to our ability to match up man to man and switch all screens, not to mention marvelous individual defenders like Wilbekin, Young, and Yeguete, will keep us competitive all season.

    We had a discussion here a few years ago about the relationship between offense and defense in terms of winning a title. That was one of the better arguments I can recall and I think it proved that offense ultimately wins championships in the NCAAs, but you must be at least moderately good defensively to make a run. Not sure our offense is where it needs to be, or even will get there, to be a legitimate title contender. But our defense, ability to get out in transition when we get Hill back to full strength, and the balance on offense should be enough to keep us in every game this season and should make us an even bet with UK to win the league title. Our floor is pretty darn high, even if our ceiling is hard to predict.
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  4. MJGator8104
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    MJGator8104 VIP Member

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    Well, he actually stated we were not a complete team for the Kansas game:

  5. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    Yes we are without question a national championship contender......but Kurtz is not an adding factor to that equation.

    Did you not watch the UConn game and the handful of minutes he played in the 2nd half???? We all love them and pull for them, but there's a time and a place for walk-ons.
  6. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    Cool article. Worth the read and the thread. But I don't find this notion surprising. Who are the teams that are objectively better right now? How many teams have that good a chance at ending up with a higher ceiling than Florida if all the pieces come together? I can't make a list for either right now. Too many "ifs..."

    I wonder this: Will Prather keep scoring at this kind of clip? Will Prather even need to keep scoring at this clip or will others step up? How well will Hill and Wilkebin end up playing together? How much will Walker add to this (Chris)? Crazy thing is, while these are questions, the floor is already so high - as another poster mentioned. These aren't "Will Florida get it together?" questions. These are questions about just how high the ceiling will be.
  7. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    The kid had the flu. Kind of hard to play on the road with two days rest when you missed both of those preceding practices due to illness. And Kansas is a terrible opponent for a 6'6" four without a stretch game.

    I do agree that his minutes will decrease in the conference season and beyond. We will have a fuller post rotation once Walker gets on board and our backcourt is healthy enough for DFS to play all his minutes at the four and to give Prather a few there, as well. He may get the occasional stint here or there in the event of foul trouble because Donovan trusts him to be read, but that should be the extent.
  8. ThePlayer
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    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    UConn is one thing....South Carolina & Georgia are quite another .
    Anything we can do to keep our starters fresh will certainly help us.
    Kurtz has been very effective in substitution time up to this point.
  9. Cosmo
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    I agree, we have a chance to go all the way till the end, hopefully this will be our year.
  10. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    like I said, walk-ons have their time and place but to even imply that one is a factor in our teams national title equation is non-sense
  11. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Who suggested that? All Themistocles said was that playing nine plus potentially Kurtz would improve our depth in contrast to the one comment that the Kansas game featured a complete roster. I didn't see him make any correlation between Kurtz and a national title.
  12. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    The thread is about whether we are a national title contender "if healthy", correct? Kurtz was listed as a factor in the equation of our teams success as it relates to depth. "Depth" is really not an issue an if we are talking about 9-10 players down the line. Even with an up-tempo, press style it's not a factor. Remember that the '04s really only went 7 deep.

    Remember that we are talking about college kids playing twice a week. Fatigue is never a real problem in the college game unless there is an issue related to illness throughout the team. Like what happened to us against Michigan last year. If and when that is the case.....the 9th or 10th man down the line isn't going to overcome that problem.

    The whole notion of including Kurtz in a discussion that is supposed to be about our viability as a national title contender is basically non-sense.

    and if we are going to discuss the thread topic, IF we are healthy, then Kurtz certainly isn't going to be a factor. If we aren't healthy and Kurtz becomes a factor, then we aren't a title contender.

    simple really.....

    do I want to see Kurtz on the floor? Sure do.....because that will mean we are winning by 20+ points late in the second half.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
  13. fortmyersgator
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    fortmyersgator Well-Known Member

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    This team is similar to the team with Tyus and Parsons as seniors who stepped up their production their last year and nearly got an NC.

    Wilbekin is the x factor..clearly we need him to behave, improve, and run the point. Frazier needs to assert his offense more..his drive and layup vs Kansas was huge in holding them off from a comeback. Anything from Finney-Smith will help. Prather and Yeguette can use their length and quicks for pressing, but mostly they need to play bigger than they are to eat space in the paint and get rebounds..take the pressure off Patrick.

    Kurtz is a reliable spot player who can provide competent, if not forceful, minutes. He can take an open look and shoot with confidence and hustle on D. You can tell his team respects him and is comfortable with him as a cog on the team.

    The fatique factor is the greatest challenge they face, but every team does, and the senior factor is a plus in that the guys know the best routine to follopw to conserve enrgy. Hopefully.
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  14. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Actually, the 2005-06 team went nine deep. The next year they were seven deep, though Werner got enough minutes to count. And we rarely pressed those two seasons. Also, if I recall, walk-on Jack Berry gave us meaningful minutes a couple of times that first title year, specifically on the road at Ole Miss.

    Regardless, you are really straining to pick a fight if you think anyone was suggesting going ten deep with Kurtz would be some sort of lynchpin in our title run.
  15. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    Jack Berry played 31 minutes that whole season.

    I'm not trying to "pick a fight." Just discussing the topic of the thread. That if healthy, the Gators are a title contender.

    The only stretch of a point you can make is that in the 2-5 minutes that Kurtz might get per game that during that time it eliminates the chance of one of vital players suffering an injury. I don't see those 5 minutes per game spread out among the 4-5 guys who could play as an alternative (Young, Yeguette, Prather, DFS, C. Walker) being a mitigator of fatigue issues.

    But again, out of those 5, I believe that we have the depth to overcome an injury to one of those players....sans Young and assuming Walker is the player we believe he is.
  16. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Do you remember that season? He was significant in the Ole Miss game due to injuries. That is how I expect Kurtz to be used.

    Yet only one person brought up Kurtz and made no direct correlation between him and the team's prospects going forward.

    Yes, that would be a stretch, but no one suggested anything remotely like it.

    I agree on both points. But if we did suffer an injury, Kurtz likely would fill the role as a fourth big, which teams almost universally employ in case of foul trouble or fatigue. Coaches often refer to a 8.5 man rotation to emphasize the point: that fourth big doesn't always get minutes unless the game necessitates it.
  17. bbreece1
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    Florida can definitely win a National Championship IF Walker is integrated into this team pretty quickly. We will need Walker down low to score and also weave some additional magic. We see the impact of one transfer--could you imagine this team without him?----- and with the prospect of a special freshman getting eligible and another very good freshman getting healthy they can win this thing. Heck, we have 4 seniors starting. Who in the heck has 4 seniors doing anything? Maybe Gardner-Webb or FAU?
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  18. wingtee
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    wingtee Well-Known Member

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    Does Boston Butt cook better with fat side up? Will Cal continue to look like a mercenary for UK? .. Just questions.
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  19. 08gatorbait
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    I don't think Prather will need to keep scoring, but I don't see why he wouldn't. I think vs teams like Kentucky he will struggle because of their inside shot disruptors. But vs most teams he will still be able to get to the rim because he is incredibly elusive and will get his points. Wilbekin, Frazier, DFS, and Young should all be in double figure averages by the end of the year(are now at least). The Walkers, Hill, Kurtz, and Yueg could give us offensive boost though I don't know just how consistent they can be right now.
  20. wingtee
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    wingtee Well-Known Member

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    My concern is Will Yeggette. Seems like he has regressed

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