HS helemt-to-helmet football death in NY

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oldgator, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Disagree. I've played tackle football with and without pads. There is a noticeable change. I don't think it is a conscious decision but subconscious.
  2. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    And as a female who has never played any form of contact sports, I respect your opinion. IF, this change were to ever be put into effect I think it necessarily must be gradual, taking years, but first beginning at the Pop Warner level. The boys would never personally know any other way of playing football and as they transitioned into high school level, then college - the changes would follow them. By the time they became ready for the NFL draft the newer helmets and rules would have become more familiar to the fans.

    It could happen. Will it? Probably not.
  3. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    see rugby...more padding leads to more violent collisions
  4. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    True, on the Science of Sport they demonstrated that a helmeted/padded cornerback delivers four times the force, through tackling, than the rugby player.
  5. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    So I'm posting from the area where this happened, and people are just beside themselves in that school. It was clear helmet-to-helmet but I don't think anyone expected this outcome - it was a freak result.

    As to the OP/question at hand, I don't know that more padding will help because at some point the helmet will become too bulky/heavy and start causing other neck strain/issues. If there's a big enough hit, and that helmet is heavy enough, the head can collapse awkwardly and then you can have a snapped neck, too.

    I think the key is having more PROFESSIONAL coaches teaching, not just some kid's dad, or some dude who is in it for the title. There's a problem of coaches sitting there "coaching" instead of teaching proper tackling techniques. You're also talking about a sport that is built on instinct and split-second decisions. What if the defender has HIS head correctly but the offensive player decides to drop his head at the last second? Obviously it shouldn't happen, but these are KIDS who are still learning, so sometimes the instinct is a wrong one.

    I actually think that the kids are entering the game too LATE. I think it needs to be like soccer and other youth sports where, yes, they have the full gear on but it's INSTRUCTIONAL so that they learn early on what the drills look like, what the body positioning should be, etc. You have these little boys just running around looking for someone to hit in some cases, and that's where a lot of the little ones get hurt. So the knee jerk reaction is to ban them from football until they're older. Well by then, they're now trying to learn all this technique/rules, etc, and still react correctly. You can't learn that without practice and experience.
  6. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    If we're talking recreation games, that's another story altogether.
  7. DaveFla
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    DaveFla VIP Member

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    Speak for yourself...
  8. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's precisely what "as someone who" means.
  9. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    They could start wearing those little flags around their waists.
  10. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Enough of the rambling. DID YOU MAKE THE CATCH?
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    What's ridiculous? That kids and adults in almost all sports die every year? You do know that acute focusing makes you myopic and blind to the larger truth/bigger picture. Football is a sport.

    Why does it seem that football is the sport du jour in people's complaints and stories?

    Is it related to college kids wanting to get payed? Is there no other forces instigating changes in football, and they're all just simply unrelated? Health of players and pay to play in college are totally unrelated?

    Does this have anything to do with the NFL players lawsuit against the owners union?

    This could all be coincidence if you live under a rock, but I say there are larger forces at work here that must be considered and investigated/debated.

    Kids playing middle school football should have oversized helmets with twice the padding... That is all.

    And women playing college LAX should have helmets too. There are way too many concussions in that sport.
  12. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Great question! :laugh:

    Would love to be able to claim I did, but no.
  13. bposs
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    bposs Well-Known Member

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    Oversized helmets is a terrible idea. More weight will cause players to lower their head when fatigued and a greater surface area means even a greater area to absorb a hit.

    Proper technique in tackling is the key.
  14. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    "Should we stop driving cars too? Because People die driving all the time."

    That was your statement that I found ridiculous. Asking how we can reduce deaths in a sport is not equivalent to asking if we should stop driving cars. It might be equivalent to asking how we can make driving (or any other activity) safer.

    There are a very small minority of people that would probably want to eliminate football altogether and your comment would have been fitting for them. I don't think you'll find many of those people on a Gatorcountry message board.
  15. Emmitto
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    Emmitto VIP Member

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    No helmets is a non-starter. Can't have mangled noses, dangling ears, shattered teeth, massive head wound Harry's on TV right after church. Bad for business. Gotta keep the injuries internal.

    Massive fines and suspensions for spearing is the only realistic answer. And yes, the NFL should be involved in funding the care for those who are disabled from playing. They've successfully avoided a large part of those costs until now because they're internal and mostly post-playing days. Right now fines go to charity and that's not bad. But it'd be better to put those monies toward care for players after retirement. That way when someone withdraws one of the few credits you have in your concussion bank you know that they'll be contributing to your staying alive fund. Or someone can tell you, since you actually may not be able to formulate that thought later in life.
  16. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    They also need to cut back on ball carriers lowering their heads into defenders then.
  17. Emmitto
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    Emmitto VIP Member

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    That rule is live for this year. I haven't see it called yet and I clearly saw Jamal Charles do exactly that last night against Philly.

    Head to head contact is inevitable and I do indeed consider that part of what you signed up for. But the intentional use of the head, especially to offensive players who are looking in a different direction is what I have a problem with. And launching into the QB after he throws. And even offensive players blind-siding defenders. Although it's odd how rarely you see offensive players intentionally go to the head. Even when Hines Ward made a decade plus career of killing unaware DBs he used his shoulder.

    But sometime it's obvious that it was intentional. And I'm giving consideration for how fast the game is. Sometimes the safety is aimed properly and the offensive player moves into the line of fire. That's just occupational hazard. But take Goldson from this past weekend (and his career in general.) He is clearly lining up your head. Merriweather from Washington, formerly New England, is the same way. He both concussed someone (Lacy) and himself this past weekend. Those maniacs have to sit until they choose to be a little more humane. I'm for giving the benefit of the doubt in iffy situations. But if I see a guy run a straight line for 20 yards with laser focus and hit head with head without some sort of sudden change of position from the other player then I can safely conclude that the hit transpired exactly as planned.

    Ahmad Black also smoked Jimmy Graham this week, but it was a late hit and not a helmet hit. He clearly tried to use the shoulder and succeeded, and the hit to Graham wasn't directly aimed at his head, although the mechanics of the play got the head shot pretty close. He got the late hit and a fine, which I'm OK with because results matter, but I don't consider it the same sort of career-shortening dirtiness that the previously mentioned players displayed.

    And all that was in the last week. Undoubtedly there was a lot more I'm not aware of.

    Defensive coordinators and head coaches need to be brought into this too. No one will ever convince me that you're not rewarded, sometimes directly although typically indirectly, for that type of play. It's encouraged and it pays. Start docking the coaches or the franchise and watch that stuff go away overnight.

    Of course that assumes the league really wants it to go away and I doubt that too. Because you could fix it immediately. I think these rules are CYA for future law suits. But then again I'm a pretty cynical dude. And I've been wrong before. I'll never forget that day in 1983......
  18. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Didn't realize they had that rule and I remember the Jamaal Charles hit you're talking about. I agree that incidental contact will happen and I'm not concerned with that. I'm just taking about the cases like Charles where you lower your head to use it as a battering ram.
  19. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Did you ever play football? Extra padding weighs next to nothing. And when I say lager helmets I'm not talking about Space Balls, super sized, helmets.
  20. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    The death is tragic, but the pussification of football is not the answer. There has to be better padding inside the helmet and yes it will help. I know first hand it helps.

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