HS helemt-to-helmet football death in NY

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oldgator, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    since this is a sports matter I believe that even a CBS site would be tolerable to cons,etc. If not there are numerous other sources for the story

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57603288/n.y-teen-injured-in-football-game-dies/

    let it begin---should measures be taken to reduce the likelihood of such injuries, death?

    if so---what measures

    if so---who should be involved in bringing pressure to bear on NFL, NCAA, HS football?
    --players themselves---not if NFL players union is an example since that group is more interested in keeping perpetrators playing than protecting the victims
    --NCAA or NFL--not if the fact that both NFL and FBS college football has full use of replay cameras for seemingly everything except cheap hits. In neither NFL nor NCAA do coaches have the ability to call upon replay camera to have player penalized/ejected from the game if on field refs miss dirty hit.
    --sports media--not likely given that ESPN and others are in full mode to protect perps and not the victims
    --politicians---not if some on this board have their way. Though I would like to see if GOP and Dems can put aside differences on other issues and unite on this one
    --fans who attend games---not likely ---they tend to like the 'big hits' and give an 'oh well' type comment if serious injury results.

    A few days ago there was a thread on the message board here at GC addressing an incident in which a player ripped the helmet off an opposing player and then bashed the now helmetless player's head with the helmet. Amazingly and sadly there were some posters who blew it off and/or saw reason to legally prosecute the player who assaulted the other player(well outside the rules of the game)
  2. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    More padding... and then leave it alone.
  3. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I think we fix this by constantly complaining about the "pussification" of football.
  4. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    Gatorrick, sad to tell you--likely that more padding would not have altered things much

    The damage comes from the brain bouncing around inside the skull. padding reduces that some but not enough to be reasonable prevention to brain injury or death.

    In addition, the direction the brain bounces around inside the skull really determines the type and extent of injury(ie a hit to front of helmet varies in effect on brain from hit on side of helmet)

    Then there is the matter of coup/contra coup impacts(basically what nailed Tim Tebow vs Ky). In addition there was a HS QB(a Nebraska commit) who got knocked silly by a clean hit and fell out of bounds. His head hit the ground then bounced up again. Guarantee he had impacts to two surfaces of his brain). Coup/Contra coup is simply the matter that when skull hits hard the brain sloshes to an inner surface of the skull and gets damaged when brain hits skull. When head rebounds after the hit the brain then sloshes to the opposite inner surface of the skull and gets injured again(so Tim Tebow didn't get one surface of his brain injured. He likely got two to four surfaces injured

    in terms of reducing incidents of brain damage I believe players wearing no helmets would be more effective than current helmets or helmets with more pads.....all but a few players would choose to not use the top of their head as a battering ram weapon against other player head. The pain would be a deterrent. Adding more padding to the helmet would likely encourage players to use their helmets as a weapon even more than currently since they likely would believe they can do so safely(when that isn't the case)
  5. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    A return to old style football leather helmets might cause players who take foolish chances and do stupid things to reconsider their actions and be more cautious. Yes, it would change the game. A game that has, and will continue to undergo change.
  6. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Not sure of the feasibility but wouldn't some kind softer layer on the outside of the helmet help reduce injuries? It's not the showing down but how quickly slowed.

    That being said, there will always be freak accidents. No way to prevent that. Awkward angles, eggshell skull, etc. are issues that are hard to address.
  7. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I've wondered about that but I suspect there were far more concussions back then than anyone knew. Hell, one of my brothers received a concussion playing flag football and another soccer. Purposely running your body into another's has to be worse. :laugh:
  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Death in sports, at any age, is a tragedy that can only be fully averted by not playing the game. All youth sports have deaths associated with them. Where will this conversation end up? When will it end? Baseball, soccer, track & field... and many of those deaths have nothing at all to do with collisions.

    Should we stop driving cars too? Because People die driving all the time. Where does this story lead us to? What is the endgame/solution for preventing deaths in sports?
  9. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    The question posed by old was

    "should measures be taken to reduce the likelihood of such injuries, death?"

    Nobody has suggested that we would be able to eliminate all deaths in sports.
  10. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Rick on this, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a move towards flag football in schools and youth levels. In part because it's less expensive, as well as safer.

    That said, there is risk in any sport. I suffered a few concussions that I was never treated for (I know - probably reflected in the quality of my posts :joecool: ).

    The one time I was treated for a concussion was from an injury playing touch football in a PE class in high school. I dove to catch a pass, while a guy playing defense dove for the same ball and his shoulder caught my eyebrow and cut it open. Didn't hurt, but there was a crap ton of blood so it looked bad, and a doctor had to stitch it up... he ran me through the concussion protocol.

    While I wasn't really hurt, no doubt I could have been if he had caught my head harder. It was just touch football. There's risk in life - we can't live without engaging in some risk.

    I think the main thing is that we be open about known risks and make sure the players and parents understand before signing up.
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    You can't extrapolate... can you?
  12. cjgator76
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    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see this improving things, old, assuming that the players would still be blocking and tackling.

    You'd see a reduction in spearing injuries but a skyrocket in injuries from skull vs. knee, skull vs. foot, skull vs. shoulder/elbow, skull vs. ground, skull vs. skull, skull vs. tip of thrown ball, and on and on.
  13. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Premium Member

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    Www.xenith.com

    Other than that, coaches quit teaching bad technique and fans, media, etc stop glorifying the big hit.

    Or go to no pads at all and see how many idiots continue to tackle as they do now.
  14. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    it is sad when these things happen but again it is the exception
  15. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    how many such incidents would it take to have you not say it is the exception?

    To me, in manners that involve injuries, death I would hope that the number would be low. But given the current environment in sports today I tend to believe the 'bread and circuses' crowd(that typifies sports media and many fans) wouldn't mind more injuries and death to satisfy their lust for excitement occurring on the field.
  16. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    more than the handful that happens every year
  17. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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  18. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    I can extrapolate. I can also recognize when it isn't necessary to do it to the point of being ridiculous.
  19. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    As someone who's played sports a lot, your mind just doesn't doesn't make these sorts of microdecisions.
  20. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    eventually the government will ban contact football for amateurs

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