How Republicans win obamacare/shut down vote, or Ted Cruz is a genius

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Can you follow this? It's a beautiful thing:


    "It’s important to keep in mind that a government shutdown does not, in and of itself, stop Obamacare from going forward. Most of the money for that law has been appropriated through channels (tax credits, state-based exchanges, etc.) immune to shutdown. The Obamacare-shutdown method relies on the hope that keeping the government shut down proves so annoying to the president that he (or a filibuster-proof majority in both houses) submits to abolishing his health-care reform in return for reopening the government. That is the only way shutting down the government could result in the defunding of Obamacare.

    Step one of this far-fetched scheme was the passage of a “continuing resolution,” which keeps the government open, attached to abolishing Obamacare. Now it goes to the Senate. Once that bill comes up for a vote in the Senate, the majority can vote to strip away the provision defunding Obamacare. That vote can’t be filibustered. It’s a simple majority vote, and Democrats have the majority.

    What Senate Republicans can do is filibuster to prevent the bill from coming to a vote at all. That’s the only recourse the Senate defunders have. And Ted Cruz is promising to do just that: “ I hope that every Senate Republican will stand together,” he says, “and oppose cloture on the bill in order to keep the House bill intact and not let Harry Reid add Obamacare funding back in.” A “committed defunder” in the Senate likewise tells David Drucker, “Reid must not be allowed to fund Obamacare with only 51 votes.”
    In other words, the new stop-Obamacare plan now entails filibustering the defunders’ own bill. They can do this with just 41 votes in the Senate, if they can get them. But consider how terrible this situation is for the Republicans. If they fail, it will be because a handful of Republicans joined with Democrats to break the filibuster, betraying the defunders. This means the full force of the defund-Obamacare movement – which is itself very well funded by rabid grassroots conservatives eager to save the country from the final socialistic blow of Obamacare — will come down on the handful of Senate Republicans who hold its fate in their hands. The old plan at least let angry conservatives blame Democrats for blocking their goal of defunding Obamacare. Now the defunders can turn their rage against fellow Republicans, creating a fratricidal, revolution-eats-its-own bloodletting."


    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...amacare-defunding-plan-to-fiasco.html?mid=rss
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  2. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Former Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) had a brutal assessment of his own party in an op-ed published Monday in The Hill.

    "Most Americans these days are simply ignoring Republicans. And they should," Gregg wrote. "The self-promotional babble of a few has become the mainstream of Republican political thought. It has marginalized the influence of the party to an appalling degree."

    Gregg, who left the Senate in 2011, became the latest Republican to sound off on the strategy by Sens. Ted Cruz (R-TX) and Mike Lee (R-UT), as well as many tea party lawmakers in the House, to defund the new health care law, an effort that raises the risk of a government shutdown.
  3. candymanfromgc
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    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

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    Even most liberals I know thing this is just a bad piece of legislation. It seems that everyone would agree to just table the whole thing and start over. It is going to be a disaster.
    That said, it's hard to get upset with the ones trying to defund this crap-it is what they were elected to do by their constituents in many cases. About time someone did what they said they would if elected.
  4. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    If Reid is able to put the funding back in it will go back to the House and guess what happens then.
  5. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    This
  6. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    1 Those criticizing it often have no clue what it will or won't do.

    2 You're naive if you think another bill would be passed this decade and we are running out of time on dealing with the very serious problem of runaway medical costs, which are on average about 167% what the rest of the developed world spends.

    3 It is naive to think a bill as far reaching as this one and involving so many powerful interests would get it all right on first shot. At some point republicans will accept defeat on their doomed and infantile attempt to repeal it and begin working with democrats to reform it. What's tort reform worth to them?
  7. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    1. Reality is easy enough to see. But hey...keep thinking those of us dealing directly with its consequences have no clue.

    2. Nothing would have been better than this disaster. It really is sad we have made things worse.

    3. See number 2 wrt to this actual bill. But I do agree any increase in government involvement will not be getting it right.
  8. gregthegator
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    gregthegator Well-Known Member

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    Everybody needs to get over themselves on THIS issue...it's going thru PERIOD!

    Dog & Pony...smoke & mirrors...

    Why...because it gives MORE POWER to them via the IRS...

    Politicians loathe to give up power...and they won't...

    see...spying on US civilians 101 that Bush started...well guess what......
  9. surfn1080
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    surfn1080 Well-Known Member

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    1. They don't have to know the whole bill. Many are already feeling the consequences of the bill as America is trying to get ready for it.

    2. Where has obamacare lowered medical cost? I'm sorry but no bill is still better than obamacare.

    3. Ha ironic in that republicans thought the same thing with obamacare before it passed....
  10. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    Best outcome at this point, is to delay Obamacare for one year. With possible change of Senate control with congress in Jan 2015, then possibly something can be done permanently.
  11. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    Any Republican who does not attempt to defund Obamacare needs to be defeated in their next election.
  12. g8trjax
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    g8trjax Well-Known Member

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    This. Just like the hysteria over a not raising the debt ceiling/govt shutdown every year. Nothing more than fodder for the media to blather over constantly.
  13. DeanMeadGator
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    DeanMeadGator '63 Gator VIP Member

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    When members of Congress decide they are willing to be covered, I may be willing to rethink it. Pelosi, who is a multi-millionaire, still does not know what's in it and isn't willing to be covered by it. Therefore, she has no personal interest at stake.
  14. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    The Liberals are scared of a shutdown because Obama care debates will become front and center attention and every liberal group in the country that hates Obama-scam could flip public support to the Republican party.

    The Leftists are running scared... you can see it in their words.
  15. DeanMeadGator
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    DeanMeadGator '63 Gator VIP Member

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    Those who voted on it had no clue what it will or won't do. Ask Pelosi.

    Why do members of Congress decline to be covered by it? What provision of the law permits them to be exempted?

    Why are labor unions suddenly using their political ties to try and get an exemption?

    Who understands the thousands of pages of regulations and what they will or won't do?

    How many IRS agents have to be hired to enforce it?

    Why do people in Canada have to wait so long to get appointments? Will we?
  16. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    Any person, Dem or Pub, who voted FOR ACA should have been kicked to the curb in the 2012, 2014 and 2016 elections.
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    The 2012 election said, rather loudly, that the general public doesn't care. I don't expect anything different in the next two elections.
  17. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Jobs are already being created, a thousand here in Florida with Rick Scott on hand to greet each and every job. Insurance jobs, new nursing jobs, and a ton of stuff so this bill isn't all bad and a lot of this was originally Republican ideas to start with.

    It is costing the economy right now to do stupid things with it. The destruction of this nation to get your way on a social issue that can be fixed when power returns, is stupid at best.

    But that would mean time to see if it works, what if it does.. some don't want that chance as fear rules their lives.
  18. gator421
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    gator421 Premium Member

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    Who are these people you talk about?

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