How Hip-Hop Failed Black America

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by tim85, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Read the article. I don't know, but I do know it's not what you're bringing with posts like that.
  2. thedude60
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    thedude60 Active Member

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    So you admit you do not know the point of an incoherent post, that you started , sorry. Maybe I was contrasting your"I do not know" post with an analogy that The Duck Dynasty clowns with all of their embarrassment and bigotry trumps Drake, Kanye, even Luther Campbell with the failing of a race. And,,I still love me some George Clinton and Sugar Hill.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  3. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I think it's absolutely remarkable that what started as rap in the '80s has lasted this long and been so omnipresent. Even some in country music have adopted it.
    As an artform, it's fine.
    While I am far from an expert, I think the problem is that so much of it focuses on the same old stuff: 'Look at me, I'm so great, I rhyme better than those other guys, I make more money, I get more women ..." and it's full enough of profanity to numb the mind to pretty much everything. In that sense, I think a lot of it is very destructive.
    On the other hand, a good bit of country music these days is full of its same crap: Girls in tight jeans, preferably jean shorts, driving out on a dirt road, drinking and having sex.
    Both audiences are being sucked into the lowest common denominator.
    As far as modern music, there's a ton of great stuff out there. As much as there's ever been. It's just not in the top 10.
  4. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I just don't feel like working too hard to explain myself or my posts to certain posters. Everyone else in this thread seemed to find plenty to talk about without trying to turn it into some political/partisan thread except you.
  5. thedude60
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    thedude60 Active Member

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    What in the hell is political about my taste in rap/hip hop, and my opinion on it just made a comparison with Kanye and the Ducker.,You started the politics with your title, How hip-hop-failed-black-america, so who is the one who started a political, border line racist thread. Sounds like a Faux news expose to me.Sorry, I am out of this insanity.
  6. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    That's the name of the article written by a black guy who isn't even remotely conservative. Email him and tell him he's borderline racist if you really think so. I thought the article was insightful and interesting, that's it.
  7. thedude60
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    thedude60 Active Member

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    It was neither.
  8. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Do you even know who Quest Love is?
  9. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    You may be out of your element dude
  10. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    Mo Meta Blues should be required reading for any music lover (also written by quest love)
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  11. Emmitto
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    Emmitto VIP Member

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    Dude, you have a good role on TH as an avid pillar of the left. But on this thread we're just considering, not even debating, hip-hop's legacy. Tim and I probably quote each others posts in every other TH thread to butt heads. And we keep it civil, but we are generally 180 degrees. I may or may not agree with your perspective on Duck, but that's neither here nor there for this thread.

    Provide your thoughts on Cube or Dre or Drake or Kanye or anyone else, but don't insert someone who isn't even remotely connected.

    I'm not intending to scold, just hoping to keep this conversation going because I like it. It's a rare occasion on TH when both sides engage in thoughtful discussion on a potentially volatile subject. Tim's posts are perfectly coherent. And I value yours too, just don't sidetrack a civil discourse.

    If you have more to flesh out about your original post, then let's hear it, I have no desire to shut it down. It just came off as a bit of a cheap shot.
  12. Emmitto
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    Emmitto VIP Member

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    Let's track it back. Rapper's Delight is considered the first rap song. LL is considered the first crossover, and he was only advancing the ball, staying away from social issues. He hardly even cursed. NWA or maybe Public Enemy was the first "accepted" subversive act. Maybe Ice-T, although I'm not a fan. After that, "hip-hop" becomes blurry to me. I'm not sure what it even means.

    So where does hip-hop start, and how is it defined? I only read this singular entry, perhaps it's spelled out more in the other entries. Even if so, I suspect we'll have some interesting, differing insights here. After all, white boys on the Internet ultimately decide all, don't we? ;)
  13. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    When first introduced (according to Afrika Bambaataa) hip-hop was a culture comprised of four elements.. rap, breakdancing, graffiti, and d.j.'ing
  14. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    NWA is what changed the game in my opinion. They took what was generally a playful music style and turned it into stories from the hood and popularized it. PE was similar, but more social issue driven, IMO. I'm not saying what NWA did was bad, I just think it's the fork in the road for hip hop. They just announced the date for the NWA movie coming out next year. Cube is bring played by his son. It should be cool.
  15. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    The Dude gave me a good understanding of his age on this thread.
  16. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    there is some good hip-hop coming out of Brooklyn these days

    The Underachievers, Capital Steez (now dead), Joey Badass

    Download these 2 mixtapes if interested:

    http://www.datpiff.com/The-Underachievers-Indigoism-mixtape.449545.html

    http://www.datpiff.com/Capital-STEEZ-AmeriKKKan-Korruption-RELOADED-mixtape.405707.html

    Or youtube them...
  17. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    Steady acts like De La Soul and The Roots are still putting out quality albums but you probably won't hear them on the radio anymore
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  18. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    You said it better than I could. I just can't handle it on these boards sometimes and just lose it when every single thread turns out the same.

    @thedude60 Sorry for being a jerk, just trying to have thoughtful conversation a board without letting the thread fall into the same trappings of so many others.
  19. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Ice T's legacy is kind of interesting in the world of hip-hop, I don't seem him listed as an influence by many. Saw him on Fallon actually fronting a semi-Metal band(!?!).

    It's interesting because despite Hip-Hop, and even moreso 'Rap's attempt at being something meditative and forthcoming about the black culture, it just ends up getting eaten up by white people anyway. I don't mean this as a negative trait for either sides, but the dynamics behind that are interesting. I would wager to bet that it's common for the majority in most modern countries to do similar things, regardless of race. Someone posted an article on here years ago about why some white people are so attracted to black culture and it was really interesting. Something about the lack of ability for whites to identify with any singular culture because of the mix of european ancestry.

    I hadn't read the other parts of this this series, but I delved into part two and I think it might even be more interesting.

    "
    What do people think of when they think about hip-hop? [...] It’s a narrative one. And what that means is that matter matters more than art. Or rather: what matters to art is its matter, what it’s about, the ideas it communicates to its audience. The other aspects serve it, but perfect performance and production of empty ideas can’t fake the fill. I hope this isn’t a controversial view. It shouldn’t be.

    I’d argue that when people think of hip-hop, pretty quickly they think of bling, of watches or cars or jewels or private jets. They think of success and its fruits, and the triumphant figures who are picking that fruit. This linkage isn’t limited to hip-hop — all of American celebrity, to some degree, is based on showing what you can buy — but it’s stronger there. The reasons are complex, of course, but the aspirational strain in African-American culture runs all the way back to slavery days. Slaves couldn’t own property because they were property. When freed, they were able to exist politically, and also economically. Owning things was a way of proving that you existed — and so, by extension, owning many things was a way of proving that you existed emphatically. Hip-hop is about having things to prove you’re not a have-not; it works against the notion that you might have so little economic control that you would simply disappear.
    "

    Part II: http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/questlove-on-money-jay-z-how-hip-hop-failed-black-america-part-2.html
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  20. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    Ice T was a major player(no pun intended) started out as more of a b-boy. Breakdancing and djing. Check out breakin'2 electric boogaloo he's the rapper in the big final scene. Then was influenced by the crips and went more gangster, putting out Rhyme Pays. The first album featuring a parental advisory sticker. And his metal band is Body Count their debut album also started a shit storm because of the song “Cop Killer"
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