How austerity has stalled the recovery

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    • Like Like x 1
  2. LeapingLizard
    Offline

    LeapingLizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +222
    I guess it depends on your definition of "austerity". Does anyone really think the US government, and even more laughable, European governments, have really been the definition of "austerity".

    Knee slapper, but always nice to know what MotherJones thinks.

    LL
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    34,776
    Likes Received:
    2,810
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +5,834
    This thread for real?

    What "austerity" measures have we implemented?
  4. tegator80
    Offline

    tegator80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,247
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Ratings Received:
    +2,845
    Yep, spending money is a GOOD thing.
    .
    .
    .
    Until the bill comes.
  5. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    See chart above and government spending following a recession, including the period Saint Ronnie presided over.
  6. LeapingLizard
    Offline

    LeapingLizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +222
  7. LeapingLizard
    Offline

    LeapingLizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +222
    Sorry, Row6, I am Libertarian.

    :)

    LL
  8. umcpgator
    Offline

    umcpgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings Received:
    +38
    Regardless of what one thinks of motherjones, the attempt to link debt and growth by Reinhart and Rogoff was flawed and it led to misguided policies.

    http://qz.com/88781/after-crunching...ded-that-high-debt-does-not-cause-low-growth/

    "But even if debt is used in ways that do require higher taxes or lower spending in the future, it may sometimes be worth it. If a country has its own currency, and borrows using appropriate long-term debt (so it only has to refinance a small fraction of the debt each year) the danger from bond market vigilantes can be kept to a minimum. And other than the danger from bond market vigilantes, we find no persuasive evidence from Reinhart and Rogoff’s data set to worry about anything but the higher future taxes or lower future spending needed to pay for that long-term debt. We look forward to further evidence and further thinking on the effects of debt. But our bottom line from this analysis, and the thinking we have been able to articulate above, is this: Done carefully, debt is not damning. Debt is just debt."
  9. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    No apologies necessary, facts are the same irregardless of who observes them. A recession or depression is by definition a period of financial contraction. administrations of both major parties have long successfully practiced the pump priming and infusion of liquidity available from government spending while everyone else is laying low. As the economy expands tax receipts increase and the time to cut back comes during a period of growth.
  10. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,842
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,286
    Except when it comes to the U.S. Congress, cutting back just isn't possible. They are addicted to spending other people's money. There is no problem that they can envision that they think they can't solve with more money.

    Austerity is not something the U.S. is familiar with. The sequestration gave gov't a tiny taste of what austerity might be like, and politicians fainted. But no, sequestration was not austerity. All gov't agencies continued to spend money like drunken sailors.
  11. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    65,368
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,307
    I don't make a whole lot of money so I keep a fairly tight budget. Now, if I robbed my neighbors I suppose I'd enjoy a more robust recovery.
  12. RealGatorFan
    Offline

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    13,887
    Likes Received:
    235
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +965
    You can't continue printing money out of thin air. To even think you can should disbar you from all debates on the subject. It's no different than severing an artery and saying you won't bleed to death because you are producing blood. Sure, you can hook up blood packs, but eventually you run out of supplies. That's what is happening to the US. Look at the rates. Almost double what they were a year ago. At some point, the Fed has to bump up rates - probably close to 6.5%, maybe 7%. As banks loosen their grip on the cash they have been given by the Fed, rates will sky rocket to double digits.
  13. LeapingLizard
    Offline

    LeapingLizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +222
    I am new posting on this board, but, with respect, your opinions seem completely back to front, topsy turvy with what works. It is the same kind of Keynesian crapola that made Detroit the great city it is today.

    So your notion is, during times of slow growth, tax even more? During a recession, create laws that slow business even more? FDR had a war to bring us out of a depression, not his big spending policies. Further, if you look at the Marshall Plan, the recipients of the most government "aid", grew the slowest. The UK in particular, if you look it up.

    Of course, if your philosophy is to believe in government, then no doubt you will perpetuate this myth.

    You can only punish the achiever so much. But, you can trust in government if you wish. I imagine that trust diminishes when your political allies are not in charge.

    LL
  14. fredsanford
    Offline

    fredsanford VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,335
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,693
    During times of slow growth, government is the spender of last resort.
  15. Gatoragman
    Offline

    Gatoragman VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +65
    I hope you understand that the CBO can only give estimates based on the info and assumptions given to them.
    Garbage in garbage out......
  16. gatordowneast
    Offline

    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,730
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +984
    Row, Fred and other lefties. Do you guys understand difference between cutting spending and cutting the rate of growth of spending. Do you really buy the democratic schtick that we have actually cut spending in hard dollars other than war related costs in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    As for Porklus, it was a huge stimulus for the families of those union members (teachers, police, firefighters, construction workers) and green energy executives who were the recipients. Can someone please point out to the rest of us what we bought for the $800 B that we wouldn't have anyway? (Pot hole projects like I saw in Maine and New England had Stimulus signs as they were paid for in that year by those funds, provided the firms used "union" workers or paid "union wages" therefore the projects cost twice as much as normal pot hole projects that are completed annually with state gas tax funds)
  17. surfn1080
    Offline

    surfn1080 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,222
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +232
    Odd in that it was government spending the past 12 years that helped us get into this mess....
  18. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    57,052
    Likes Received:
    595
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,878
    We need to cut government spending enormously, but I wouldn't put government spending in the top 10 list of reasons why we experienced a financial crisis.
  19. fredsanford
    Offline

    fredsanford VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,335
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,693
    Government spending had little to do with the crisis in 07/08.

    Debt and spending ARE a problem. But in times of recession/depression, it is not the most important immediate problem.

    It's like telling someone who is starving to death and has no money and only a credit card that he shouldn't charge food because his cc bill might be too big next month.
  20. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26

    And yet we were headed for budget surpluses only 13 short years ago.

Share This Page