Hot Seat - Will it ever cool off?

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by nolagator, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. msa3
    Offline

    msa3 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,086
    Maybe -- just maybe -- he might have motivated them. Maybe -- just maybe -- he might have gotten them to spend more time in the weight room. Maybe -- just maybe -- he might have taught them enough technique so Roberson's lack of strength might have been overcome. A lot of DBs haven't been great tacklers. Seems like a great DC -- specially one who used to be a DB himself -- might have been able to help them get better in their time with him.

    Or maybe they're just bad kids. It's amazing how often that appears to be the case when players don't live up to fan expectations, isn't it?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Tebowism0823
    Offline

    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    14,025
    Likes Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tavares/G'Ville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +6,066
    That "poster" was me and actually he has. No program is perfectly clean and Purifoy was an idiot in regards to his decision making. Not to mention his post was in reference to him being caught with drugs after football season ended and after he declared for the draft. When does Muschamp, or any coach for that matter, not get dinged for these things anymore. Seems to me the time had passed.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Tebowism0823
    Offline

    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    14,025
    Likes Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tavares/G'Ville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +6,066
    or MAYBE you are just going out of your way to blame the coach. At the end of the day, you cannot force these kids to do anything. When you have "x" amount of players doing it the right way, and only "z" amount of players doing it wrong, then common sense tells you it's the players. How about all the other DB's that passed his way over the time. Why ignore his question regarding Patton. Maybe because it defeats the little rant you were in the middle of? I can agree with your posts some of the time, but the other times it just spews hatred for the coach regardless of how much sense it doesn't make.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Tebowism0823
    Offline

    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    14,025
    Likes Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tavares/G'Ville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +6,066
    Roberson and Purifoy FAILED THEMSELVES!
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. MyakkaGator
    Offline

    MyakkaGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,518
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Myakka City, FL.
    Ratings Received:
    +2,984
    And last time i checked, Roberson and purifoy had the same amount of time in the weight room as all the other players...must've lifted with the kickers or they just weren't putting the necessary work in. Being a great high school talent will not get you into the nfl.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Tebowism0823
    Offline

    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    14,025
    Likes Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tavares/G'Ville, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +6,066
    Exactly. I'm all for calling Muschamp out for his faults, but that's crazy to try and put on him. Not to mention the argument was very weak.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. gatorgrad92
    Offline

    gatorgrad92 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +478
    I'd take it because it would mean we beat our main rivals *and* we'd likely have a new HC next year. Wins all the way around.
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Wormwood56
    Online

    Wormwood56 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,452
    Likes Received:
    757
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Ratings Received:
    +3,032
    IOW, you would root for the Gators to lose...

    "In all kinds of weather, we'll all stick togetherrrrrrrrrrrr...for F-L-O-R-I-D-Aaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"
    • Like Like x 1
  9. msa3
    Offline

    msa3 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,086
    You're obscuring the point. It's not about the weight room -- I didn't bring up the weight room. And I'm not trying to defend poor Marcus and Luchiez, because they both displayed enough jerky behavior when they were here to make "maybe they were jerks" an acceptable answer.

    But the point is that two kids who were very highly touted before 2013 -- both listed on mock drags as potential first-rounders -- ended up UFAs. Patton did well in the weight room -- still ended up a UFA. Powell, a five-star high-school All American who was voted the MVP of the Army game, ends up a fifth rounder. It wasn't MR and LP in the weight room that took them down -- or even their off-field behavior. It was that they didn't cover very well. While that may have been at least partly their fault, don't you have to assign at least some of the failure as a failure to teach? It's the same thing with the Oline, or with the kickers last year, or even the QBs. Coaching is teaching.

    I'll ask you -- who has he developed? Who's the kid on this team who has come from obscurity to become a real contributor, the kids who has really benefited from coaching? A kid like Willie Jackson, who develops into a great players under this regime? Who has exceeded the expectations they had coming out of high school. We've heard a lot of talk from WM supporters about bare cupboards, and we've heard him given partial credit for guys like Elam and Floyd who were drafted high, who lived up to their expectations. But who on this team has exceeded them?
  10. GatorSean
    Online

    GatorSean Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    6,263
    Likes Received:
    469
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,996
    Well doesn't the fact that Purifoy and Roberson where potential first rounders after 2012 (after two years of Muschamp coaching them) tell you that they did receive good coaching? Do you really believe Muschamp coached them to be worse in 2013? My sense is those two players feed off of each other and ended up being cancers for one another. But they didn't suddenly get bad coaching after two years of good coaching from the same coaches now did they?? That doesn't even make sense.

    As far as who's exceeded expectations, I think that sort of development generally takes a couple of years, and Muschamp has only been here 3 seasons. His first class are just now seniors and that was a transitional class that was light on numbers. It's really not until next year's seniors can you say these are the players that were 100% developed under Muschamp. But I would say Gilly exceeded expectations, as did Reed and Sturgis. VHIII exceeded my expectations last year. Easley, before his injury was playing better than any DL I've ever seen in a Gator uniform. Bostic and Jenkins both had their best seasons under Muschamp and parlayed that into some nice NFL money. And when expectations are sky high like they were with Elam and Floyd, and those expectations are met, then that has a lot to do with development as well.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. OaktownGator
    Offline

    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    27,177
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +8,399
    You forget that while Roberson was highly rated, Purifoy was a reach as a recruit for us. Our 2012 defense put a lot of pressure on opponents, and put those guys in position to make big plays, They got the high draft projections in spite of flaws in their game. Those draft projections probably impacted their attitudes and coachability.

    Players that clearly developed under Muschamp include Harrison, Gillislie, Reed, Bostic, McCray, Hunter, and Evans. I would argue that is also true for Floyd, Easley and Elam. Sure, they are great talents, but that doesn't mean they didn't develop.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. gatorgrad92
    Offline

    gatorgrad92 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +478
    Absolutely not. I am not going to ever root for the gators to lose. I would be thrilled if we went undefeated and won another NC. However, the question was "would I take a 6-6 season if we beat FSU and UGA". Take. As in 'accept'. Not root for nor hope for. Accept.

    The answer is yes I would accept that result if it meant getting rid of a coach who is grossly underperforming while still beating FSU and UGA. In other words, a vintage Zook-like performance. I say that because if we were go to 6-6 next year we would have to lose to at least one team we have no business losing to (again), AND it would mean our coach would be 6-6, 11-1, 4-8, and 6-6 over four regular seasons.

    If that happens. I would expect Muschamp to be shown the door.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. gator_n_sc
    Offline

    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +3,393
    Its true though. Because that stuff happened to purifoy after the season. We are coming up on a whole year since the last player was arrested under champ, which was Morrisons punch ( not counting the bark). Can you remember the last time we went an entire calender year with out a current player getting in legal trouble? I'll help you...... it's been a while.
  14. gator_n_sc
    Offline

    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +3,393
    Wow!.. talk about a complete contradiction.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. gator_n_sc
    Offline

    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +3,393
    Jaylen watkins....... destroyed it at the combine and was drafted because of that and champ developing him into a versatile db really got him up the boards. Jordan reed...... was a qb who transitioned to TE, enjoyed his most college success under muschamp, was a surprise at the draft and really proved it in the league........ next!
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  16. gator_n_sc
    Offline

    gator_n_sc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,844
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +3,393
    Well by the time we find these kids you speak of you would have already criticized champ for taking a kid who came from "obscurity" and wasn't highly ranked and came with high expectations to begin with.

    You bend the parameters to fit what you are trying to prove. You say guys like easley, floyd, elam don't Count for development because they were highly ranked and therefor "lived up to the hype" , as if 5 star players don't have to "develop" into NFL talent. Nobody, except maybe clowney has come out of high school and be able to compete in the nfl. They all need to develop, and some just dont.

    But on the flip side "we are florida"
    So we don't take low ranked, under the radar recruits from obscurity because that, from what I hear, would mean we have sunk into mediocrity. So trying to find a guy who fits your criteria is limited because we have mostly high ranked recruits, many of which HAVE developed under muschamp.
    People have no problem pointing out his failures with his players but rarely point out his successes with his players.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. lestergator
    Offline

    lestergator Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +123
    First and foremost he must win every game we should win and with a decent margin of victory and good play by the team in every aspect. Next he must win at least half of the competitive games with good play. Then get a decent bowl game, be well prepared and win with good play. If not there should be a new HBC and it should never be Skip Holtz. What we need is the format that has succeeded in the past. Great coach from smaller school on the way up. Has had HBC responsibilities and that is essential.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. UFGator05
    Online

    UFGator05 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +1,233
    That is refreshing, for the most part. I'm all about cleaning up the program
  19. gatorcity
    Offline

    gatorcity Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +272
    lol now we are bragging about our low arrest record? after a 4-8 season? thats like your kid bringing home a report card with straight Fs in all his classes but he got an A in conduct. whoopee!
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Boring Boring x 1
  20. gatorgrad92
    Offline

    gatorgrad92 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +478
    Complete BS. There is absolutely ZERO contradiction in those two statements. NONE.

    Let me break it down so even the basecamp crowd can understand it. This means YOU sc.

    1) I hope we go undefeated and win the NC, even though I know very well we won't.
    2) I would rather we go 10-2 with loses to UGA and FSU than 6-6 with wins over UGA and FSU.
    3) I would rather we go 6-6 and beat UGA and FSU than go 6-6 and lose to both UGA and FSU.
    4) Regardless of what happens I hope the gators do well.
    5) If, however, the gators go 6-6, regardless of who we beat or don't beat, I want Muschamp gone.
    6) If getting rid of him is possible while still beating FSU and UGA, then so be it. I would rather that happen than him being fired while losing to UGA and FSU.

    Thus it is quite possible to hope the gators do well and refuse to root against them, while simultaneously being happy we beat our rivals and are replacing an underperforming coach.
    • Agree Agree x 2

Share This Page